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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 4:30:52 GMT
Hello, this is Aspa but all of you already know that. I did not know where to put this, but putting this discussion thread here is as good as any.
To start things off, I’ll state what I thought what Gravity training actually was. I did three Gravity Threads, and one currently being worked on under the assumption below.
I thought that Gravity training was based off of the current planet’s Gravity, simply because you’re multiplying the Gravity of the planet you’re on.
Why would it do anything else? Why would a Saiyan on Vegeta use Earth’s Gravity for a x10 training thread? Why would a Brenchian on either of the Brenchia twins use Earth’s Gravity? Why would a Zoon-seijin on Zoon use Earth’s Gravity?
Because it’s canon?
If EVERY SINGLE Gravity Chamber worked on Earth’s gravity, wouldn’t those four planets and I assume a lot more planets have boosts for training threads?
Wouldn’t every single thread on Vegeta be a 10% gain if so?
I know by using the flavor of the Planet’s Gravity would lead to insane amounts of gravity, but the species upon those planets that had lived on those planets all their lives would be able to handle it.
I know in canon, Vegeta was only able to handle ‘x500’ the Gravity of Earth. But wouldn’t he if he spent most of his life on Vegeta be able to handle more? ‘x500’ would only be x50 of Vegeta’s gravity, and x150 of Vegeta’s gravity would be x1500 of Earth’s gravity.
What we need is a discussion on Gravity, and what would be fair IC and OOC.
If the majority of the community wants ALL Gravity Chambers to work on Earth’s Gravity, then every world with higher Gravity than Earth’s would have a Boost for threads created and roleplayed on those planets.
If the majority of the community wants ALL Gravity Chambers to work on the Gravity of the planet they’re on, then there won’t be a Boost for threads created and roleplayed on those worlds.
If there were a solution that says otherwise, discuss it here. And if the community votes that ALL Gravity Chambers will work on Earth’s gravity, I will allow the staff to reduce my PL to what it was before I finished the Three threads that I have done. Note the third one has not been graded yet, I will redo it should I be required to.
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Post by Kaula on Jul 8, 2015 4:35:33 GMT
Short answer: No.
Long Answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Time to be blunt. No. Stop trying to make your character seem more badass by complicating the system. Why? Because you realize you won't be able to really do it with anyone else, right? You certainly will never be able to do a regular grav training because then, ICly, you won't get the proper gains. And if they went by "Vegeta Grav multiplies" they would turn to mush.
Besides, staff members have already told you no.
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Post by Zexama on Jul 8, 2015 4:35:56 GMT
We keep it as the same, we need no more stuff. We should keep it everyone using Earth's gravity. If you don't want your character struggling on 10x gravity because he used to it don't have him struggle, just have him walk around bored. However, the other planet's have increased gravity for flavour ONLY! We should have all the gravity chambers use the Earth's gravity and when you RP on other planets, you get no extra bonuses. Soooooo no.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 4:37:35 GMT
Its best to keep it as it is and its works ic and ooc xD Think of it like the trans phases. where the moon and makyo star pop up on planets they shouldn't always be present at times. Its fine the way it is and I see no reason why we should change any of it when what we have no works just fine.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 4:45:15 GMT
I say keep it as it is; no need to over complicate things.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 4:45:53 GMT
Short answer: No. Long Answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Time to be blunt. No. Stop trying to make your character seem more badass by complicating the system. Why? Because you realize you won't be able to really do it with anyone else, right? You certainly will never be able to do a regular grav training because then, ICly, you won't get the proper gains. And if they went by "Vegeta Grav multiplies" they would turn to mush. Besides, staff members have already told you no. One: I AM NOT TRYING TO MAKE MY CHARACTER MORE BADASS AS YOU SAY IT. Two: I am not trying to complicate the system. Three: Which Staff Members have already told me no? I have contacted the Admins, about it. Bao has said do a Discussion. I've even contacted Bing Gan about it, he said he would talk to the other Staff about it. This is a thread to have a civil discussion about this, not to put your own trollish hate into it. I understand that if you do it too soon, you will be turned to mush, HELL IF WE DID REAL LIFE MECHANICS OUR LUNGS WOULD COLLAPSE DUE TO THE CHANGE IN PRESSURE. We keep it as the same, we need no more stuff. We should keep it everyone using Earth's gravity. If you don't want your character struggling on 10x gravity because he used to it don't have him struggle, just have him walk around bored. However, the other planet's have increased gravity for flavour ONLY! We should have all the gravity chambers use the Earth's gravity and when you RP on other planets, you get no extra bonuses. Soooooo no. Yes, but Fal why would a Saiyan on Vegeta use Earth's gravity? Why would Brenchians use Earth's gravity? Why would a Gravity Chamber built on Zoon, the Brenchian Twins, or Vegeta use Earth's Gravity? Why would any Race that has evolved in 'Enhanced' gravity use Earth's Gravity? I know that the other planets have increased Gravity for Flavor only. Why wouldn't the Gravity Chambers have it for Flavor only? Its best to keep it as it is and its works ic and ooc xD Think of it like the trans phases. where the moon and makyo star pop up on planets they shouldn't always be present at times. Its fine the way it is and I see no reason why we should change any of it when what we have no works just fine. Thank you for your time posting in this discussion.
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Post by Rukkora on Jul 8, 2015 4:50:33 GMT
There are a few reasons why all gravity chambers should be measured on "Earth's Gravity".
First off, it's because Earth's Gravity is a unit of measurement. What I mean by that is that, once you're training at more than 10G, you are no longer training at Earth's Gravity, but you are using it as a standardized unit of measurement. While it's certainly possible that other planets might use other systems of measurement, unless their planet has more than 150G, the end result will be the same. On this website, your gravity training cannot exceed 150 times Earth's gravity - or 15 times Vegeta's gravity.
For example, you can measure distance in Miles or you can do so in Kilometres, but if you need to cross a distance of 500 miles it will be 804.67 km. It won't be "less" in kilometres just because the kilometre is a smaller unit of measurement than the mile. You can't change 500 miles into 500 kilometres and have it be the same distance. Just because Earth's gravity is a smaller unit of measurement than Vegeta's gravity does not mean that the "distance" - the amount of Gs under which you are capable of training - is different.
If we were to use Vegeta's gravity as a unit of measurement, all that would change is that the 150X Gravity Training would become 15X Gravity Training. You change the unit of measurement, not the amount of gravity under which you can train. And, yes, 10G would be nothing to a Saiyan, but 15, 25, 35, and so on are not. They have an in-character (but not mechanical) "head start", but only as much of one as a human who has grown accustomed to 10G.
And, no, spending your whole life on a planet with 10G does not make you inherently capable of handling more Gs than anyone else. Son Goku lived his life under 1G and learned to handle 10G with ease. Vegeta, as a Saiyan, is naturally accustomed to the 10G gravity of his homeworld and no amount of time apart from it would rob him of that or make him inferior to anyone who spent their whole life on the planet.
In fact, Vegeta was the strongest pure-blooded Saiyan survivor - stronger than Nappa who spent his childhood and most of his adulthood on Vegeta with a considerable power level compared to other Saiyans and his own father, King Vegeta - until Son Goku surpassed him. And Goku was raised on a 1G planet. And what I was trying to tell you in the Cbox is that Vegeta's sheer power that surpassed any other Saiyan around him except Goku was still not enough to prepare him for training in 500G, let alone the 1500G you would flavour your training with. Vegeta wasn't weaker than a Saiyan raised on his planet, nor less geared to high-gravity than them. He was considerably more powerful than any of them and trained under higher gravity than any Saiyan to come before him.
But aside from that, it's a moot point because the gravity chambers that you can purchase only go up to 150G. For this to work, races from worlds with lower gravity would have to be at an inherent disadvantage compared to anyone else when it comes to handling gravity and that is simply not shown to be the case in canon nor should it be the case here.
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Post by Kaula on Jul 8, 2015 4:50:38 GMT
I'm not saying RL rules. I'm going by logic. If a person who's only used to x40 Earth's Gravity went into a x40 thread with a Saiyan using Vegeta gravity, they would turn to mush. Because that's x400.
There's literally no reason to do this.
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Post by Wyntre Cold on Jul 8, 2015 4:54:13 GMT
It can easily be flavored. If you play a Saiyan native to Vegeta, you could easily state you are training in 15x Vegeta's gravity. I see no problem here.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 4:55:59 GMT
Its more mechanics I think like how Kaula is trying to explain. Flavor is one thing but completely changing what it is is another. Flavor is adding a little style and a little personal touch but not changing to that degree. It doesn't seem needed at all to increase it to such huge variables. Besides in the high hundreds sounds like something you'd need to be a ssj or something to do so regardless even if it was flavor that makes much less sense then going by the smaller numbers.
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Post by Rukkora on Jul 8, 2015 4:57:41 GMT
It can easily be flavored. If you play a Saiyan native to Vegeta, you could easily state you are training in 15x Vegeta's gravity. I see no problem here. That would be 1500 times Earth's gravity, Wyntre. Which is a ludicrous amount of gravity for anyone to train under short of maybe Lord Beerus and Whis. A more sensible solution is to flavour a Saiyan's 10G training as 15G training, then raise the interval to 20G and continue normally from there. But not to multiply the gain to levels that would reduce anyone to mush; that's not flavour, that's outright changing what it is (like Kaula said). What can a person who can only train at 150G do to one who can withstand 1500G?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 5:07:08 GMT
The only way I see this working is if Vegeta Saiyans have a different measurement to humans and go up by 1G each time. We need to keep the balance because even if you were right Aspa - where would that lead us?
Saiyans are OP but not nearly as OP as what you're explaining them to be. Humans wouldn't stand a chance no matter how hard they trained. That's just not cool =[
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Post by Wyntre Cold on Jul 8, 2015 5:09:29 GMT
It can easily be flavored. If you play a Saiyan native to Vegeta, you could easily state you are training in 15x Vegeta's gravity. I see no problem here. That would be 1500 times Earth's gravity, Wyntre. Which is a ludicrous amount of gravity for anyone to train under short of maybe Lord Beerus and Whis. A more sensible solution is to flavour a Saiyan's 10G training as 15G training, then raise the interval to 20G and continue normally from there. But not to multiply the gain to levels that would reduce anyone to mush; that's not flavour, that's outright changing what it is (like Kaula said). What can a person who can only train at 150G do to one who can withstand 1500G? It would be 1500 if Vegeta had a gravity of 100g. But, because it only has 10g, 150x Earth's gravity is equal to 15x Vegeta's.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 5:09:37 GMT
There are a few reasons why all gravity chambers should be measured on "Earth's Gravity". First off, it's because Earth's Gravity is a unit of measurement. What I mean by that is that, once you're training at more than 10G, you are no longer training at Earth's Gravity, but you are using it as a standardized unit of measurement. While it's certainly possible that other planets might use other systems of measurement, unless their planet has more than 150G, the end result will be the same. On this website, your gravity training cannot exceed 150 times Earth's gravity - or 15 times Vegeta's gravity.For example, you can measure distance in Miles or you can do so in Kilometres, but if you need to cross a distance of 500 miles it will be 804.67 km. It won't be "less" in kilometres just because the kilometre is a smaller unit of measurement than the mile. You can't change 500 miles into 500 kilometres and have it be the same distance. Just because Earth's gravity is a smaller unit of measurement than Vegeta's gravity does not mean that the "distance" - the amount of Gs under which you are capable of training - is different.If we were to use Vegeta's gravity as a unit of measurement, all that would change is that the 150X Gravity Training would become 15X Gravity Training. You change the unit of measurement, not the amount of gravity under which you can train. And, yes, 10G would be nothing to a Saiyan, but 15, 25, 35, and so on are not. They have an in-character (but not mechanical) "head start", but only as much of one as a human who has grown accustomed to 10G. And, no, spending your whole life on a planet with 10G does not make you inherently capable of handling more Gs than anyone else. Son Goku lived his life under 1G and learned to handle 10G with ease. Vegeta, as a Saiyan, is naturally accustomed to the 10G gravity of his homeworld and no amount of time apart from it would rob him of that or make him inferior to anyone who spent their whole life on the planet. In fact, Vegeta was the strongest pure-blooded Saiyan survivor - stronger than Nappa who spent his childhood and most of his adulthood on Vegeta with a considerable power level compared to other Saiyans and his own father, King Vegeta - until Son Goku surpassed him. And Goku was raised on a 1G planet. And what I was trying to tell you in the Cbox is that Vegeta's sheer power that surpassed any other Saiyan around him except Goku was still not enough to prepare him for training in 500G, let alone the 1500G you would flavour your training with. Vegeta wasn't weaker than a Saiyan raised on his planet, nor less geared to high-gravity than them. He was considerably more powerful than any of them and trained under higher gravity than any Saiyan to come before him.But aside from that, it's a moot point because the gravity chambers that you can purchase only go up to 150G. For this to work, races from worlds with lower gravity would have to be at an inherent disadvantage compared to anyone else when it comes to handling gravity and that is simply not shown to be the case in canon nor should it be the case here. And I do understand this, but planet Vegeta was destroyed while Vegeta was a child. His body would have unadjusted to the gravity of Vegeta. When someone does not train or do any sort of exercise for long periods of time, their bodies deteriorate. This is the case here. There could be worlds with that much gravity to them. Vegeta, and Goku underwent a LOT of Zenkai. Goku's last Zenkai sent him from 90,000 PL to 3,000,000 PL. That's a 2,100,000 PL boost. Yes, they were waaaaaay more powerful than what we have here. Also, Goku did not adjust to a higher gravity easily. He struggled a lot with King Kai's planet, due to the enhanced gravity. Brenchians have a adaptation ability like Saiyans do. He also abused the hell out of Zenkai in order to reach x100 Earth's gravity, which sky rocketed him from 9,000 to 90,000 within a month and six days. Unique Characteristics: Brenchians are naturally stronger and faster than Earthlings, due to their planet's intense gravity. They also have a quick adapting function in their biology, allowing them to adjust quickly to environments like Saiyans. Found here: wodsouls.freeforums.net/thread/8/aliens-customWhat I'm saying is, that Gravity Chambers should work on the planet's gravity and would only be for flavor. Gravity Chamber : 1,000z | 2,500z | 3,750z | 6,250z : Gravity chambers are available for purchase in models capable of fifty, eighty, one hundred and twenty, and one hundred and fifty times gravity. As mentioned in the 'rules of Wod:Souls' thread, this training enhancement can only be utilised for 2 threads per week. [requires basic spaceship or building] Nowhere in this description does it say that it's 'Earth's' Gravity that the Gravity chambers would be based off of. It simply says what it says. Anyone, would assume that this means and what's in the rules could mean the planet's gravity, not Earth's gravity. 7) Of these, two can be gravity-based or enhanced-zeni (and counts towards the five if you are doing it with a companion). Gravity trainings increase in increments of 10x, no skipping allowed. I'm not saying RL rules. I'm going by logic. If a person who's only used to x40 Earth's Gravity went into a x40 thread with a Saiyan using Vegeta gravity, they would turn to mush. Because that's x400. There's literally no reason to do this. Who says, someone from Earth or Namek would go to Vegeta to train? Who says a Human couldn't flavor their Gravity chamber to work by Vegeta gravity, and do it by one each level? Let the Community decide about this. And like I said in the first post of this thread. If the community decides to go by Earth's gravity with Gravity Training, I will let the staff reduce my PL by what I gained through Gravity Training, and redo all of my Gravity threads to be based on Earth's Gravity.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 5:14:49 GMT
Why do you think you gained more of a gravity bonus? What bonuses did you gain that you want your PL reduced? I can't understand where that is coming from.
From my perspective, you didn't gain any extra bonuses cuz they don't exist lol
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