Turn Whirley
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Post by Turn Whirley on Aug 31, 2017 22:09:01 GMT
Question: Does this place use stats?
...meaning that things don't become overly convoluted or restrictive but still retains an easy way of comparing combat effectiveness and achieving progression as you work your way upwards
All techniques in Death Enabled and Saga threads are governed by the KP System.(Note: no mention on everything else. )
Alright. I've been here for a short while and (hopefully) got everything right for this discussion thread. Honestly, before this I was going to make a theory thread for how fusions would work, but after seeing the other discussions on this...yeah, mine would just be another drop in an ocean. So I decided to give a thought out on the ki system. I had a bunch of really, really complicated systems and mechanics but then I realized that it goes against the answers above. So, I came up with a few ideas. (Also, I don't really count Zeni/Shoki as a stat. So, essentially, there's only one stat.) (A universal thing I also want to state for every option is that, for all threads except Saga/DE ones, the ki system can be thrown out the window if all thread participants are aware and agree to it-or at least are generally cool with it. This can be over-ruled by word of moderators. )
Option 1:We make Ki Points the universal system. Correct a little bit of wording, nothing really changes, etcetera. Option 2:Ki Points become more advanced! How I would want this to work is that every character starts out with 3-4 (depending on racial preference) Ki Points (considering max starter PL is 15k) as a 'stat' of some sort. These Ki Points function the same as normal Ki Points, the difference being that the player regenerates 1.5 Ki Points every post he does not act in ( 1 if he still has 3-4. ). The amount of Ki they have beforehand is what they enter threads with; at most, using regeneration/other techniques, you can have up to double your amount of current Ki Points. ( I.E: If you have 12 KP, your hard max on ki counting regeneration/other stuff is 24.) Every 45,000 PL, a player receives an extra Ki Point ( again, with the example, we now have 13 KP that we immediately go into threads with). Meanwhile, concerning attacks... Attack types will cost the same PL as before, except with a few new additions. For one, if you use an su technique during a post, if you attempt to use it again, it will cost double it's original cost. For the third and final use, it will still cost double it's original cost and you can only use up to three SU techniques at a time. Second off, for charging attacks, every post that you charge it for (barring the first post) the attack costs an extra single Ki Point. Finally, you can only use up to four techniques in a single post (not counting techniques that cost no KP). Concerning guards and minions, minions function as their own entity, so this is simple. However, for guards, if there is more than one guard, their KP functions as a minion does. If there is more than one guard active, the technique cap applies to all guards present and is increased by 1 KP. As for absorption, bio-androids and majins are allowed to take up to 1 KP from the absorbed. Concerning transformations...well, that's for later I guess. Probably more discussion for later. As for another small thing, if an opponent takes an attack above 130% of their PL, they casually lose a Ki Point as a result of damage (in-thread, they still have all their normal KP outside of the thread). If they take up to 160% of their PL, they lose 3 Ki Points as a result of their damage.
The reason I made this post is because, in non-DE/Saga threads, MP3 spam is still perfectly possible. Yes, it's kinda a general consensus to use the KP system at all times, but it's not really stated, so it's quite easy to get around. Plus, it would add a little bit more strategy into battles, which can be seen as either a good or bad thing. For me, I see it as a good thing, due to the layer of strategy it adds, as well as eliminating spamming entirely. It also adds a bit more customization to the website ( and due to the attack types costing the same-initially-as before, technique-approval is still the same). |
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Post by Gekido on Aug 31, 2017 22:23:54 GMT
I'm gonna say this. Rp it out before you ask to change the system
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Turn Whirley
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Post by Turn Whirley on Aug 31, 2017 22:42:52 GMT
I'm gonna say this. Rp it out before you ask to change the system I can't exactly ask the moderators if I can do an rp battle with completely different mechanics, the only thing that I can do being theorizing. Also, this is the suggestion thread. |
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Post by Plato on Aug 31, 2017 22:45:23 GMT
True, however, all I'm saying is before you suggest a complete revamp of a rp fighting forum perhaps be apart of a couple RP fights on the site first. (This is gekido alt btw)
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Turn Whirley
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Post by Turn Whirley on Aug 31, 2017 22:54:02 GMT
True, however, all I'm saying is before you suggest a complete revamp of a rp fighting forum perhaps be apart of a couple RP fights on the site first. (This is gekido alt btw) Good Point. Although it's safe to note that I've looked over a bunch of (De) fights before stating my opinion. Also, this is a suggestion for how the ki system should work in mon ami's opinion, not really a complete revamp of the entire website but eh. |
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Bing Gan
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Post by Bing Gan on Aug 31, 2017 23:02:50 GMT
Hey there Turn.
It's been a while since KP has been implemented, and although it's not required to be used in non-DE threads, it still very much is. The players here stick to it because it's a good system, even if they don't need to hold themselves to it for a non-DE.
The last time I saw a fight go down without KP was something like a year and a half ago, and that's quite a while for a forum roleplay.
Like Gekido said; it's probably better to test the system yourself when you can and you'll see that it's not as problematic as you think.
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Turn Whirley
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Post by Turn Whirley on Aug 31, 2017 23:06:16 GMT
Hey there Turn. It's been a while since KP has been implemented, and although it's not required to be used in non-DE threads, it still very much is. The players here stick to it because it's a good system, even if they don't need to hold themselves to it for a non-DE. The last time I saw a fight go down without KP was something like a year and a half ago, and that's quite a while for a forum roleplay. Like Gekido said; it's probably better to test the system yourself when you can and you'll see that it's not as problematic as you think. Fair enough-I'll probably try to test it out. Also, as for the KP system, it is a good system, but I just thought I'd rather showcase my own version of a what I'd like it to look like. Although due to how my character is going to be guard-focused, most likely later down the line I'll do a bunch of proper rp battles and then improve on this. |
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Grail Brisk
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Post by Grail Brisk on Aug 31, 2017 23:40:36 GMT
The reason that the KP System is not enforced in non-DE threads is to encourage freeform plots unfolding in a natural manner unrestricted by mechanics. We have the KP System enforced for DE/Saga threads in order to ensure there is a fair and balanced method to have a competitive fight.
Your proposed enforcement of a KP system during non-DE threads would undermine the simple and freeform roleplay that our site maintains, and while I am not a mod I am about 99% sure that staff would throw this out based on that simple part right there. In addition your system is a lot more complex than our current KP system. The cost of a technique changing in the middle of a thread based on the number of times it has been used in that thread? While it might seem simple that can create a major headache for moderators who have to keep track of that information, especially for big Saga threads like the one we just had on Vegeta recently.
So I'm going to reiterate what Plato/Gekido has said. Roleplay here for a bit longer, get a personal handle on how our system works, and then re-try your hand at refining the system.
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Post by Rafar on Sept 1, 2017 1:07:17 GMT
Option 2:Ki Points become more advanced! How I would want this to work is that every character starts out with 3-4 (depending on racial preference) Ki Points (considering max starter PL is 15k) as a 'stat' of some sort. Making starting KP as a racial would convince people to pick the same 2-4 races even more then they do now. These Ki Points function the same as normal Ki Points, the difference being that the player regenerates 1.5 Ki Points every post he does not act in ( 1 if he still has 3-4. ). Don't really see the point in this, an extra .5 isn't gonna do anything for you.The amount of Ki they have beforehand is what they enter threads with; at most, using regeneration/other techniques, you can have up to double your amount of current Ki Points. ( I.E: If you have 12 KP, your hard max on ki counting regeneration/other stuff is 24.) So what's to stop someone occupying an enemy until a second player can repeatedly nuke them with MP3s?Every 45,000 PL, a player receives an extra Ki Point ( again, with the example, we now have 13 KP that we immediately go into threads with). So basically if someone has 43k KP when going into a fight, and another has 46k, the latter would have an advantage from the start? Not sure this is fair.Meanwhile, concerning attacks... *grabs popcorn*Attack types will cost the same PL as before, except with a few new additions. For one, if you use an su technique during a post, if you attempt to use it again, it will cost double it's original cost. For the third and final use, it will still cost double it's original cost and you can only use up to three SU techniques at a time. Not sure what the point is in limiting SUs if players have more attacks to spam. Besides, characters spam this move a ton in the series so I don't really see the logic behind this, sorry.Second off, for charging attacks, every post that you charge it for (barring the first post) the attack costs an extra single Ki Point. Interesting point, but it wouldn't resolve the earlier "spam no-charge MP3" problem.Finally, you can only use up to four techniques in a single post (not counting techniques that cost no KP). I think that's way too much to be throwing at someone in a single post. The 1 attack 1 support seems more logical to me.Concerning guards and minions, minions function as their own entity, so this is simple. However, for guards, if there is more than one guard, their KP functions as a minion does. If there is more than one guard active, the technique cap applies to all guards present and is increased by 1 KP. Not really sure about this part. Both minions and guards have the same KP rules, and the extra KP would only make the swarm tactic even more overwhelming for weaker players.As for absorption, bio-androids and majins are allowed to take up to 1 KP from the absorbed. Makes absorbers wayyyy to strong. If this was a thing, people like Shemha would have an extra 3-4 KP. Concerning transformations...well, that's for later I guess. Probably more discussion for later. As for another small thing, if an opponent takes an attack above 130% of their PL, they casually lose a Ki Point as a result of damage (in-thread, they still have all their normal KP outside of the thread). Not a horrible concept, but considering over a 100% puts people near death, this wouldn't have much of an effect. Does this include senzus?If they take up to 160% of their PL, they lose 3 Ki Points as a result of their damage. As above
The reason I made this post is because, in non-DE/Saga threads, MP3 spam is still perfectly possible. How? The only way to fire MP3's consecutively is to take a senzu, which is basically shooting yourself in the foot for not much gain.Yes, it's kinda a general consensus to use the KP system at all times, but it's not really stated, so it's quite easy to get around. Well the rp is supposed to be free-form, so.... Plus, it would add a little bit more strategy into battles, which can be seen as either a good or bad thing. For me, I see it as a good thing, due to the layer of strategy it adds, as well as eliminating spamming entirely. Strategy is good sometimes, and there is a little here. But too much would undermine the spirit of the siteIt also adds a bit more customization to the website ( and due to the attack types costing the same-initially-as before, technique-approval is still the same). Sorry if this seemed a little harsh, only meant to convey my thoughts. As others have said, I would recommend trying out the KP system a little before trying to upgrade it. You might find it to be a little more intricate then you think  . |
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Vi-Poi
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Post by Vi-Poi on Sept 1, 2017 3:15:19 GMT
Hiya Turn.  When I was developing KP, I started with the concept of a fellow staffer, which was kind of like your idea but didn't exactly work when we talked it out. Having the points scale with power level is a natural thought to have, it seems like a good idea until you come to terms that having 9 or 12 KP would make having KP meaningless, since most fights hinge on the success of one or two powerful techniques. It'd make the stronger even more unbeatable, and the weak less competitive. The biggest reason why the number three was chosen was because it is proportionally equal to the three technique tiers. For instance, when you use 3/3 KP you are using 100% of your energy because you just fired 100% of your PL at someone. This fits very nicely, and it changed the dynamic of fighting for the better. The value of a single KP grows as you grow, but it remains proportional to your PL output. Before KP, every DE save one that I can think of was won by the strongest person. The exception to that was just because people chickened out for no reason, but had they done the PL math, they would have won. After KP, it's still usually the strongest who wins DEs, but there have been more than a few surprise upsets because the weaker party smartly managed their KP. We don't require KP in non-DE threads because we want to encourage our players to focus on the writing and enjoying the story wherever possible, rather than having to count numbers. And yeah, I'll echo a few people and say that you should play with it some and then if you still think it needs overhauling come back to this. |
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Rhytid
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Post by Rhytid on Sept 1, 2017 4:49:48 GMT
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