Vi-Poi
Administrator
Premier of Earth
PL: 434,410
Soul(x40P), Overdrive(x43)
Zeni: 1,247
Tag: @vipoi
Posts: 2,833
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Post by Vi-Poi on Jun 9, 2015 2:07:17 GMT
Discussion is kind of fizzling and has been open for a while, so without further adou, I bring you the Reveal Hidden Transformations vote. Relevant discussion is here: wodsouls.freeforums.net/thread/3453/hidden-transformation-revelationSome things to consider while voting, which were the thrusts of different arguments made: - Knowing the entire breadth of all Species transformations may help everyone make more informed balance suggestions. - Knowing the entire transformation tiers may or may not ruin some of the 'mystique'. - Having only a select person (as is the case now) or persons (as would be the case with staff only) know the transformations may cause lost information, incorrect application, conflicts of interest, or instances of selective bias.
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Donatsu
Archived
PL: 5,770
Spirit Force (x3)
Zeni: 32
Tag: @donatsu
Posts: 166
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Post by Donatsu on Jun 9, 2015 2:32:49 GMT
Seeing someone reach heights unbeknownst to anyone else is very fun. I vote to leave them hidden and unknown to anyone but admin. While I agree that it does hurt the strategic element of the site, I think the fun of it outweighs that small con.
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Post by Hyoza on Jun 9, 2015 9:38:24 GMT
What happened to the proposal where we show the multiplier in the profile, but don't elaborate publically on how it is gained? That'd have been my vote.
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Post by Toma on Jun 9, 2015 9:56:17 GMT
I think if they're revealed to staff, then members should be given a hint on how to obtain them. I honestly don't trust staff to read EVERY SINGLE THREAD to judge if someone has achieved a transformation or not, so having hints so the member can go "pls read this thread and tell me if I did it" could be useful and lessen the load on staff members.
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Post by Hyoza on Jun 9, 2015 13:21:55 GMT
I'm actually going to retract my earlier suggestion, upon giving it further thought.
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Post by President Bao on Jun 27, 2015 15:36:15 GMT
Hey there folks, I see this went through, so I am going to provide a link. This link comes with some conditions though: In the past sharing my personal notes has seen me copping a lot of flack when things get misunderstood or such, so > whatever it is you think you know when you read these is wrongzo and you should assume it is actually written in ancient egyptian hieroglyphics that just happen to look like text you might know but actually has entirely different meaning > just ask me, I will clarify anything anyone asks, to make sure nothing is misunderstood These are after all personal notes, not specifically designed to cover all edge cases or such people might think of or outline is intricate detail things people other than myself might not fully understand based on the brief single-cell comments > These forms were designed based on them being secret, now they're they're revealed most... will probably need nerfing. They involved a leap of faith on peoples part, or circumstances not generally likely to be encounter, now that people know however this will no longer be the case and thus will probably need reworking. > They were also rougher than the previously revealed forms, being hidden and generally later game meant I could be less precise and refine as needed once someone grew closer. > you are a lovely person, with fine eyebrows So, without further ado: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hqM0zRLinToqFOneYA_5fxEDMO1wTVbSoQutut_qYGE/edit?usp=sharingTo give some quick comments: A large amount of the stuff you guys commented in various threads about races was already considered back when I was devising the forms originally. I couldn't come right out and say so though, since I was bound by secrecy, though as you know I did hint vaguely. > Yes, arcosians did infact have an alternative to the mecha route, though it was shear coincidence that this happens to match the new frieza movie (the form was devised before said movie was even hinted at) > Yes, bio-androids have an alternate route based on non-absorption, originally their power weighted perfection was also a secret form but they needed something to fill in their power curve so I added it to the official list back in the day > Yes, Namekians who don't unlock their form through fusion or such get a better one down the track in compensation. Same for Majins (also they can go uub ) > And ofcourse humans had a Tao based android/cyborg form, him trying to trick goku in Z was one of my fav episodes I'm not entirely sure what I wanted to do with a later form though so currently it's a bio-android conversion but that was possibly going to be silently reassessed > Speaking of Androids, yes absorption android was worked in to the secret form, though if race variants become a thing that would likely have been reassessed > Saiyans... I was considering lssj but felt saiyans already had more than enough and it didn't truly fit into their curve. I did however have that bio-broly style secret form You may notice the ongoing theme is doing things out of the ordinary and sticking to it, the secret nature of these forms hidden far enough away for it to feel like there's nothing there until the big moment of payoff (kinda like how default humans have a wide transformation drought before their final form shots them on top) Now, lets discuss, ask questions, so on I know you guys have been keen.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 15:53:47 GMT
Oh god I'm so confused by this. Now J wish we didn't reveal then XD
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Post by President Bao on Jun 29, 2015 2:36:52 GMT
Come on folks, start chatting and asking questions. Don't be shy, if you see something which you don't understand ask me now, so I can clarify things sooner rather than later.
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Post by Hyoza on Jun 29, 2015 9:38:52 GMT
The poll and discussion was just for them to be revealed, people now know what they are, this topic has reached its conclusion.
Where we go from here will need to be discussed later.
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Post by President Bao on Jul 1, 2015 4:25:22 GMT
I'm here now to answer questions, I don't see the need to make a separate thread for such, as part of revealing would also entail explaining - my sheet alone is not enough, and was only posted as an appendix to the Q&A I'm trying to kick off now. If you guys aren't going to take this chance to gain clarification on the content there though, (which I can 100% say that seen as it was notes to myself is definitely not going to be understood properly, but I cannot fully anticipate what/where... and to be fair shouldn't really be expected to), then you are also forfeiting any validity to complain that something is not explained or that you didn't understand it later on if/when I point out a given mistake. Now is your time to ask*, please do so while I have the time to answer, rather than later when I will not. * (everything and anything, even if it's just confirming what you think something means is what it actually means, or about edge cases you might have thought up, or intersections you might not quite understand)
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Post by Maeve Rakshasa on Jul 1, 2015 4:37:54 GMT
What is the 'requires desperation' bit? Do we get to determine that or is there somewhere where it states when a 'desperation' transformation can and can't be used?
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Post by Liang on Jul 1, 2015 5:13:23 GMT
First and foremost, i'd like to say these all seem pretty awesome. Looking at Demon, though, i'm somewhat curious. The requirements for a Demon's hidden forms required them to never use their trump card, by the looks of it. I'm curious as to the reasoning behind that, is all. That's probably the most vague and well-hidden one of the bunch. Demons seem great at the early game but the X4 PL demon ability really seemed to let them have some staying power up until they gained their SSJ-equivalent transformation, the x18 if I remember right. I don't think any demon ever made would have achieved the hidden transformations without the reveal here. What stirred the decision to make such a tricky requirement? Basically they'd have to forego the ace up their sleeve for their entire game in favor of a bit more late game staying power. Was it inspired by anything in particular? I'm interested in both a lore and mechanics factor. It's such a nice perk to have that ability on hand, leading me to believe that no demon on the site would have ended up achieving it. For example, an Arcosian player that simply wanted to stay forever organic instead of the idea of the cybercosian route, flavored or otherwise, would have eventually became a powerhouse on par with Human's Legend. It seems a bit more realistic for an Arcosian to stick it out as an organic rather than a demon never using their ace, especially if they became involved in a DE or Saga. That attack could turn the tables of an entire conflict. I'm not complaining, i'm actually genuinely curious and on top of that, another situation that comes to mind is when the Makyo Star isn't out and about and before they have an x8. Only having an x3 transformation would be a huge motivator to turn the tables with that ability or at least attempt to. There's a few others I find pretty vague also, so this is just a basis of example.
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Mayze
Moderator
PL: 250,469
Super Saiyan(x12) MSSJ(x15)
Zeni: 849
Shoki: 2,965
Tag: @gagelange10
OOC Name: Gage
Posts: 1,232
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Post by Mayze on Jul 1, 2015 5:58:23 GMT
Hmm, some of these modifiers will definitely have to be lowered. We still want humans to be the most powerful at the end after all.
I suggest for the golden ozzarou to be reduced to a 47.
The arcosian's x45 to a x40. And their x50 to a x45 maybe lower.
Alein A could be lowered to a x49.
Alien b can be the same as my suggested Arcosian's.
Perhaps alien c's final trans could be boosted a bit. Or perhaps we can add a transformation to them? As it stands, the arcosians and alien b, early game dominators, leaves them in the dust with their new transformations.
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Post by Zexama on Jul 1, 2015 6:05:25 GMT
I have a question about majins. For the final 'UBB' transformation how it requires to get 500,000 PL, saga defeat and to become a human. What is the multiplayer? Is saga defeating losing the battle or dying? One last thing that hasn't got to do with hidden transformations; When it says for the 150,000pl and 300,000pl transformations, when it says: Requires absorb/Separation/unlock. Is this implying you only have to do one of them? I've noticed this is different to the hidden 'Ubb' trans and the Ubb one is obvious that you need all of them to use the transformation. I'm guessing that Separation is the evil part (or good) coming out and you have to duel and all that. Is unlock getting to 150,000pl and 300,000pl or something?
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Mayze
Moderator
PL: 250,469
Super Saiyan(x12) MSSJ(x15)
Zeni: 849
Shoki: 2,965
Tag: @gagelange10
OOC Name: Gage
Posts: 1,232
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Post by Mayze on Jul 1, 2015 6:15:21 GMT
Saga defeat, at least in this case, does mean death. Otherwise how would you be reincarnated.
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