Vi-Poi
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Post by Vi-Poi on May 31, 2015 7:08:57 GMT
Hello everyone It recently came to my attention that there are hidden transformations in the current Species design, meaning, some Species may have additional transformations besides the ones that have been revealed. As I understand it, this was the result of a compromise vote early in site history. Originally, all transformations were secret. A vote was made on whether or not to reveal them, and a compromise was reached where the transformations would be partially revealed. I do not know the scope or the significance of what remains hidden, but I myself am very interested to see what other transformations might exist for each Species, because I have taken a very big interest in how the Species relate to one another through the entire game's progression. If part of the progression is hidden or incomplete, it's impossible to make good analysis. The other aspect goes from the perspective of a newcomer. I find it better that the newcomer have all the racial tiers laid out before them, before they choose their Species. What if one Species dead ends far sooner than another? What if a certain Species has two hidden transformations far down the road that make them highly desirable, much moreso than before? The contra to this is of course keeping it how it is, lending the player a sense of mystery and chance in their decision. One other avenue could be to simply seal the Species as they appear to be now, and disregard any hidden transformations. I see this as an ideal situation because the game is fairly well balanced, but I would hesitate to make a final decision without first seeing exactly what these hidden transformations entail. My main proposal is to reveal the hidden transformations, so that we may decide if they should be applied, or at least examine them.
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Mayze
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Post by Mayze on May 31, 2015 7:12:43 GMT
Agreed Vi-poi. When I first heard of hidden transformations, I was very curious as to what they were.
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Post by Articho Reville on May 31, 2015 7:12:52 GMT
By universal law, you must reveal what they are because you've talked about a secret.
That is to say, yeah I want to know what they are XP.
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Post by Vennel on May 31, 2015 7:14:27 GMT
I personally enjoy the mystery, and would like to see it remain that way, but that's personal opinion. My only caveat is that when a character has met the requirements, in terms of power level, they be made known how to attain their transformation. Because if someone meets the requirements for their transformation, and never knows, they'd never attain it successfully and the transformation may as well not exist.
Especially due to the nature of DBZ, many transformations are well known (such as saiyan forms) and keeping it a 100% mystery, where someone who'd reached the appropriate level would be left in the dark and may attempt to achieve higher levels of power (such as SSJG or SS4) under the assumption that there are hidden transformations, and thus continue to try for something that may not even exist.
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Post by Toma on May 31, 2015 7:14:57 GMT
Honestly? Yes, reveal them. How the hell else are we gonna get to use the hidden transformations if they're HIDDEN? We can't trust mods and admins to read every thread and go "oh this guy has reached the critera let's tell him about this FSSJ or w/e trans and allow him to use it".
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Post by Kayle on May 31, 2015 7:16:15 GMT
I wouldn't mind seeing what the hidden transformations are. I mean the race pages already deal confusion out to people with some of the readings. No reason to add on to that. Revealing approved!
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Vi-Poi
Administrator
Premier of Earth
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Post by Vi-Poi on May 31, 2015 7:39:21 GMT
Another point, basically barely any of the staff team maybe except for maybe admins know anything about the hidden transformations currently. So it would help the staff too, because if one of you do reach a secret milestone, I won't know anything about it, and neither will any other grader.
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Post by Vennel on May 31, 2015 7:51:26 GMT
Perhaps, as a compromise, the power levels/hidden transformations, can be listed as a power level range? (between power levels x-y) And the transformations and what they are like/do can be kept a secret? Or maybe just give the power level numbers to staff so they know what to look for (or any other key criteria). This way it keeps some mystique, and makes it easier on everyone at the same time?
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Post by Hyoza on May 31, 2015 12:28:47 GMT
Originally, all transformations were secret from members (though staff were aware of them) UNTIL somebody unlocked them. So no Saiyans would know when exactly they got SSJ until somebody unlocked it. I was in favour of this as it prevented 'transformation rushing'. It also ties in well with the series canon, where Vegeta kept thinking he'd become a Super Saiyan, because nobody actually knew what one was. But as soon as Goku got it, other Saiyans quickly followed - beginning to understand the path to unlocking it.
However, with most of them revealed now, I feel like at the very least staff should become aware of them, and what they do balance-wise. Right now I believe only Bao actually knows what they are supposed to be, which isn't terribly helpful to anyone.
There's also an argument for just making the knowledge site-wide, in either a limited capacity, or a full-disclosure. Knowledge of what transformations are open to the various races is a major aspect of many players' decision-making process when creating new characters. So if players at least knew there were forms beyond what we've got listed in full, they could at least know at some point something was waiting for them if they worked at it, while still maintaining the mystery.
Having staff fully-aware so they can monitor people's progression towards these secret forms, as well as making it clear which races have these secret transformations to ALL members would be my preferred option.
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Post by Zuni on May 31, 2015 13:37:52 GMT
I'd like to know.
Perhaps we could have the secret transformations in their own thread, spoilered, with a 'gentleman's agreement' not to discuss them in the cbox for those who enjoy a little mystique.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2015 14:55:55 GMT
I'd say keep the secret but at the very least, give staff the forms and at least release the placements of these forms, like are they before or after the current forms we have or placed inbetween so people can at least speculate as to what these forms are.
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Post by Articho Reville on May 31, 2015 15:13:45 GMT
I like Zuni's proposal.
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Post by President Bao on Jun 5, 2015 15:26:26 GMT
I've always been pro-transparency, many arguments in support of it here retreat the comments I made at the time. If we're ultimately not revealing it however: > I don't need any help tracking who is getting close, entirely under control. > revealing it just to staff presents a major conflict of interest and abuse case just waiting to happen ('staffX attained/told their friend memberY about the secret form which they then used to get a major advantage in the game'). Hyoza: the reason they weren't 'revealed' is because they did not exist, there literally were no forms beyond the starter transformations. When I came up with my suggested forms, I posted my drafts in staff area as I penned them out because doing so in PM's to myself does not retain the formatting properly and as a special treat so that the few of you that were there at the time could have a sneak peak about my personal suggestion - something I never did again and wish I hadn't. (2)
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