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Post by Kayle on Jul 6, 2015 0:42:45 GMT
Reading the description of Saiyan Soul on the FSSJ page itself, it sounds as if it's exactly the same. I am confused as to the difference. They both get yellow super saiyan like auras, and the eyes are whited out. The only difference seems to be Vegeta being able to control the form while Goku couldn't, but this could be explained by Vegeta being more experienced with it. Also, it appears that Brolly had it as well, meaning the tail wouldn't be needed to be gone at all for this to happen. Could someone explain the difference more clearly to me? Hell FSSJ could just have been Goku's "Saiyan Soul" as well, being it activated while he was being beaten and his "pirde" wouldn't let him let Earth be destroyed. Both of these abilities seem to be the same to me and I am having a hard time seeing the differences.
Also, I was just curious about the hybrid form choice thing to begin with because, if we go by canon, which is spouted here so readily, Gohan, the only one actually seen having the hidden power, did have both transformations. That being said, I personally do agree with it being a choice. I like the idea of choices and think more should be implemented.
I also like the idea of FSSJ/Saiyan Soul or Oozaru being a choice, but maybe it should be a character creation choice but still allow the saiyan to keep the tail as flavor? Just as a hybrid CAN have a tail, just not Oozaru out if they take hidden power. I've seen it on the site.
This is why I thought giving androids a choice between infinite energy or energy absorption models was a good idea, and why I tried to suggest it. Nameks get dragon or warrior clan choice, Majin get magic power or absorption choice, Hybrids get hidden power or oozaru choice. Saiyans and Androids could have choices too. Im not so sure what kind of choice the demon BA or human could get though.
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Post by Zexama on Jul 6, 2015 1:28:15 GMT
Additionally, I don't support the Uub transformation for Majin. The Majin transformations already have a trend of changing your character's personality that you'll have to prepare for upon creation, but having them race change into something else as a "transformation"? It seems like it'd just be easier/make more sense to just reincarnate your Majin as a human (or whatever) after death. It's not exactly a transformation of sorts hence no multiplayer. It is basically you get rid of everything majin, all your absorbtions go, maybe even your magical powers? But you have the same PL, so 500,000, and you work your way through the human transformations. As Bao stated they may be a 10,000, 5,000 leeway meaning if you past like 505,000 then you can no longer get the human reincarnation. The thing is that is what it already is, it is a reincarnation after a saga defeat, which is death most likely.
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Post by Zero on Jul 8, 2015 9:53:15 GMT
I think the 50x should be allowed. There's a HUUUUUGE gap between the Arcosian trans to the 50x and that's well earned. It should be 50x.
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Post by Kayle on Jul 8, 2015 10:01:39 GMT
This still doesn't account for the HUGE early game advantage, or the fact that that it's been stated to being reworked possibly. I personally think the x45-x47 is a fine trans for them end game.
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Post by Zexama on Jul 8, 2015 10:11:13 GMT
Except that huge early game trans is hardly ever used because of the massive Pl deduction.
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Post by Zero on Jul 8, 2015 10:12:56 GMT
Yeah what Falt said above.
Here's my reasoning. Before I even start I just wanna say Arcosians are already technically weaker than humans with mecha. So yes it's true, Arcosians can START stronger than humans with their true. But once humans get around 140k which is wayyy before royal they get a 16x. Once Arcosians get 220k They get royal with 16x. Their non hidden trans list stops there and they don't get any more nonhidden. However, humans continue and at 250k they get a whopping 23x compared to the Arcosians who get absolutely nothing. Humans then go double that to get a 50x. This path is MUCH more difficult for Arcosians. Arcosians need to go 230k to even get close to the 50x for humans! Arcosians need the 50x at 500k. And for those who want that little extra, 50x should be available for perm at 600k pl. I mean humans do get 50x perm at 500k*. I think it's only fair. Thank you for reading this, I appreciate your time.
* NOTICE!
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Post by Kayle on Jul 8, 2015 11:13:37 GMT
The fact that its -chosen- not to be used does not just the fact that it exists. I mean you could use the arguement that since people on the site are getting up there, that early game is nothing anyway. Still doesn't change the fact that its there. I would much more be for what Zucceta wants to do, with giving them a better mid game, than giving them a trans to match humans.
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Post by Zero on Jul 8, 2015 11:19:27 GMT
The fact that its -chosen- not to be used does not just the fact that it exists. I mean you could use the arguement that since people on the site are getting up there, that early game is nothing anyway. Still doesn't change the fact that its there. I would much more be for what Zucceta wants to do, with giving them a better mid game, than giving them a trans to match humans. I'd rather have the endgame as a long pl earned reward.
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Post by Zero on Jul 8, 2015 11:19:20 GMT
The fact that its -chosen- not to be used does not just the fact that it exists. I mean you could use the arguement that since people on the site are getting up there, that early game is nothing anyway. Still doesn't change the fact that its there. I would much more be for what Zucceta wants to do, with giving them a better mid game, than giving them a trans to match humans. I'd rather have the endgame as a long pl earned reward.
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Post by Kayle on Jul 8, 2015 11:25:53 GMT
And it's fine for you to have that opinion. I personally don't think they should get a form as powerful as the legend. An x45 to x47 isn't that much weaker than it, and the fact that you have a very strong early game into account as well. Just because the early game isn't usually taken advantage of, doesn't mean it's not there.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 12:06:35 GMT
And it's fine for you to have that opinion. I personally don't think they should get a form as powerful as the legend. An x45 to x47 isn't that much weaker than it, and the fact that you have a very strong early game into account as well. Just because the early game isn't usually taken advantage of, doesn't mean it's not there. However, there is a few things I wish to say about this. Saiyans and Alien C both can have a x10 (C can have an x12) which they can use one every three or four weeks for a whole week. They can after 20K PL and with a few tech slots learn to use this transformation whenever they want to. So Arcosians are the 2nd strongest, and then Bios at 20K PL after they absorb someone can go to x8, which is well within the 65% battle pl ratio. Just look at the Arcosians and Alien B, both of them deserve this transformation for surviving 250,000 POWER LEVEL without a transformation. Saiyans are almost always dominant in their fighting, the only time they drop off is for 100,000 power level between 300K and 400K, but even then, they can still fight! Arcosians will be the only race for 200K power level that isn't above x20! docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bbrQVUA1Tq-XoNUr7_U9U5CxE3bTE2MCMCfc4lFS8eA/edit?usp=sharing
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Zucceta
Administrator
PL: 379,083
Oozaru(x10) MSSj(x15) S.Ooz(x22) SSj2(25x)
Zeni: 2290
Tag: @admin
OOC Name: therevolution
Posts: 2,309
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Post by Zucceta on Jul 8, 2015 12:18:33 GMT
Iunno if you guys are actually ignorant of my suggested rebalance for Arcosians if mechanisation is made into a universal mechanic, or just playing dumb, but it involved them ending between 21-23x, regardless of mechanisation. wodsouls.freeforums.net/thread/3890/mechanisation-mutation-specific-pathway-universalThis would make the mid-game MORE bearable, and allow to have an ultimate evolution ending on 45x. Arcosians get to dominate at the start, they shouldn't get to equally dominate at the end.
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Post by Zuni on Jul 8, 2015 12:20:53 GMT
If you use a tech to achieve Oozaru, you're at x8, not x10. It is also a special technique and requires you to convince someone to teach it to you. As there is, I think, one person in the game who has that tech, it is ... misguided, to imply this is having a massive effect on balance.
Alien C don't have a similar tech - as far as I am aware - at all. There is also a grand total of, I believe, one Alien C in the game at all.
And it is relatively trivial to avoid fighting 1/4 weeks. If you do choose to fight a saiyan in that period, it is also the only transformation in the game it is easy to undo - attack the tail!
Arcosians are the only race who can reach six figure PLs after a week or so of playing, if that. This lets them punch way above their weight in the early game.
Is it fantastic? Well that depends who you're playing with. If you came in with a group of 8 people and just played amongst yourselves, the arcosian would have a very notable advantage until everyone else starts hitting around 100k. In the context of the game as it exists currently, there are plenty of people who can deal with them easily.
But Arcosians get a period of total and complete dominance in their lifespan. Humans do not, as even their endgame transformation - whilst juicy - doesn't propel them unbeatably far ahead of every other race at their PL. That is why arcosians should not have access to a x50 - although a x45-47 is probably fair.
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Mojo
Newcomer
PL: 13,005; Desperation (x2):26,010; Items: Scouter; Zeni: 0
Tag: @mojo
Posts: 35
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Post by Mojo on Jul 8, 2015 14:10:24 GMT
They should not end up at the same mult as Saiyans, maybe it shouldn't be an x50, but regardless of how we rebalance their progression (not that I think we should tbh), Saiyans have a MUCH more competitive game trans-wise (especially if we give them FSSJ/Saiyan Soul), while Arcosians still have an enormous mid-game period of irrelevance to put up with. Ending up with no edge over saiyans seems rather unfair to me.
I'm also kinda fed up of the 'huge early game advantage' being touted. It literally only lasts til 100k. So many people have already surpassed that, and it doesn't actually take long to do. PLUS they lose a whopping 50% of any PL gains if they pop their x10. And unlike Saiyans and other races with event-activated x8-x12 forms early-game, they can't lose this drawback until MUCH later.
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Post by Zuni on Jul 8, 2015 14:14:09 GMT
I agree the PL penalties are unnecessary - and a little odd, given they're the only race with something like that. I think they should lose the PL penalty.
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