Zucceta
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Post by Zucceta on Feb 1, 2016 20:39:52 GMT
So, as some of you are probably aware, there are some canon techniques that are, so far, completely no-go's:
1) Instant Transmission (and instantaneous teleportation techniques): The canonical form of this attack breaks several levels of game design - the ability to instantly travel between planets, the ability to instantly jump into any death enabled sagas at the expense of its current participants, an insta-dodge, so on, so forth.
2) Fusion Dance: The canonical form of this attack would instantly give a huge advantage to pretty much any player on the site. Even if balanced correctly, if two strong characters had this technique then they'd dominate.
3) Potara Fusion: Same as above but with the added effects of being 1) canonically stronger and 2) permanent.
4) Forced mind control (like Babidi's lesser lackies): we have "soft" mind control if the player allows it, but we do not have anything for forcing a player to act a certain way. I think this technique-type should stay forbidden.
So, friends, I'm opening the floor to you - should these techniques be implemented? If so, in what manner that it does not break the fairness of our game design?
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Post by Helix Crust on Feb 1, 2016 20:47:11 GMT
Wouldn't mind seeing implementation of a majin mark / mind control device / something of that nature via palace, or perhaps distributed in a way similar to the seed of might? Potara fusion I wouldn't mind either, under very rare circumstances. Perhaps when someone died, if they qualified for AL tutor training, there would be a 1 in 50 roll that would determine if they would get potara earings from a makaioshin or kaioshin. This implementation would get rid of any drama involving who is dominant in the fusion; the original recipient of the earings would be dominant unless they wanted specifically not to be. Though I would be worried about it making namekians shit, as fusion is one of their only unique race traits.
instant transmission (except for a cop out 500% dodge or something else that doesn't really stay true to the original technique) isn't workable, neither is fusion dance, in my opinion. Fusion dance would essentially outclass potara and namekian fusion without any of the sacrifice necessary for either.
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Post by Kizuki on Feb 1, 2016 20:50:39 GMT
1.) I think we should keep IT off the table. It's something that can get incredibly messy in my opinion when it comes to the usage of this. I just don't like the idea of it for here when we already have ship travel mechanics that do just fine. 2.) I'm for this. Though, one has to understand the fact that canon-wise, Gotenks was able to go head to head with Majin Buu, and was powerful enough to go SSJ3 with very minimal effort. In that case, I think the buff, realistically, has to be close to end game trans numbers. Gotenks and Gogeta were shown to be quite powerful overall. As far as how long it should last, I would think somewhere between 4-5 posts per thread. Once the split happens, if the thread is still on going, it'll take somewhere between 7-10 posts each to be able to fuse together again. - Prerequisites: - Ki Suppression / Ki Setting: Depending on how hard or easy you want this to be attained. It's stated that the PLs need to be EXACT. Only way to do this is by knowing Ki Suppression or Ki Setting.
- KP Restriction: Both players have to be full on KP. Perhaps in a pinch, where KP is not at full, a moderator's dice roll will determine if the fusion is successful or a failure, depending on how you want to see it.
- Interruption: Interruption can only be done via a tech move. If the interruption is fought off via a third party, then it should be successful. Also, possibly only one person (if there are more than one) can interrupt to stop the spamming of techs on two people trying to fuse.
3.) I'm for this, but only when it comes down to one person giving their character up completely. While both characters will end up going away to create a "fused" being, one player is going to be responsible for taking in the other character's history, and it could get messy as well. Someone has to 100% be willing to get rid of their character and history, barring a Dragon Ball wish to split them, which I think is going to be the most difficult / cause the most drama. ("My old character is a part of that one, they wouldn't act like that!" and such) 4.) I'm for this, I was actually hoping to implement something of this nature to Kizuki ala Time Breaker Bardock.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 20:51:17 GMT
Only issue I see with Potara is that it'd be super easy to snag one on someone and just "Eat" their character. As for the others, I don't think they should be allowed for right now, at least. Fusion dance has possibilities, but you're right, it's far too easy to abuse.
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Otto
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Post by Otto on Feb 1, 2016 21:09:07 GMT
I am going to list what I could see as being potentially fair for these.
1. Instant transmission- A special that dodges anything and allows the user to bypass travel threads. This move costs 3kp to use. (If the user uses IT to enter a thread from one location to another within 24 hours of using this technique they begin the battle with 0 KP).
My opinion: Even with a KP setback we still could have a very game breaking technique. In the hands of the strongest player a drawback such as that will probably not be enough to give weaker players a chance in a DE. Furthermore I believe the move promotes metagaming to the utmost degree, with IT players just casually "happening" upon locations where sagas they aren't even aware of taking place.
2-3. Fusion is already in the game, the Potara dance could easily match up with Namekian Fusion (a permanent 50% of the other character's pl to the dominant user). Potara is actually easier to consider than lower level fusion because of the detriment of character loss that affects most people from using the ability with a namekian.
Regular old fusion could be effectively work as a 25% form that isn't permanent. At 300,000 it would be a boon of about 75,000, but we aren't looking at it unlocking transformations. This would be an equivalent to a +(x+1/4) boost to an equal pl player to put it into perspective. For the temporary fusion divide grades in two, but only one person will represent posting in a given thread.
My opinion: Not that overpowered for something that would require a lot of work to get at least. The more powerful version is going to rip up one of the character sheets, so I don't see it being used often.
4. no. (I am for moves that offer alternatives to taking the damage for such an effect, such as Old Man's gender bender beam)
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Bing Gan
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Post by Bing Gan on Feb 1, 2016 21:10:45 GMT
1) Agree. IT should, at the very best, be flavor only. Even then it's stretching allowability. 2) Dejectedly I suppose I agree. Fusion is one of the coolest ideas to me, but specifically the fusion dance? Not exactly the fairest. 3) Disagree. We already allow permanent Namekian fusion, and it was also shown to be immensely powerful. Canonically, Piccolo received NO training from King Kai; he didn't even get to go to the planet. If that's the case, his fusion with Nail gave him IMMENSE power. If we allow that, why can't we consider allowing Potara? If we don't want to employ it as an item acquired in the AL somehow, perhaps it could be a part of Vi's New Game Plus idea he had a while back, or just allow it in some players backstories ("I'm a fusion of Character I Own A and Character I Own B!" You get half the PL from both characters) 4) Agree. Mind Control is essentially god modding. Even Majin Mark, in canon, has the ability to be ignored/broken out of. I like the soft MC we have though! Keeping it would be fine to me. (As for the mention of Majin Mark as a Special by Helix Crust, I already developed a possible version of it; we just need a role to attach them to/ a palace to give it to).
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Post by Zuni on Feb 1, 2016 21:18:04 GMT
1) Instant Transmission - I'm happy for this to remain the province of myth and legend.
2) Fusion Dance - I'd love to see a way for this to be implemented, for all I've played devil's advocate to it in the past. The problem is, it is such an inherently abusable thing I can't see any good way for it to be done in practice. The best I can come up with is that we could make it a transformation line that you can only use with 1 other player, and perhaps it lets you access your high transformations 50-100k earlier, at the penalty that you will individually never reach the higher levels individually. This would also open a huge can of worms regarding what happens when one half of the duo inevitably quit.
3) Potara - As a version of namekian fusion you can buy with money (or shoki) I can see this being okay mechanically. I'd say it needs to be willing, in direct violation of canon, and it needs to be expensive. I also question whether it actually adds anything to the game. Fusion Dance is neat as a unique, cool element - potara seemed like a one-off in the show and I don't think there's any evidence that more than one set ever existed. I could be wrong though.
4) Forced mind control - this should be banned forever.
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Post by Articho Reville on Feb 1, 2016 21:19:15 GMT
Teleportation can be implemented, but it should be very restrained. 1. Not usable in a battle 2. Implement a grace period into DE's that stop people from entering after a certain time has passed 3. Planet travel should be extremely tiring, meaning you can do it, but you have to wait 48 hours before you do it again and it requires training to move objects and people
Fusion could simply be the adding of two peoples PLs together (with possible .75 multiplier) and they gain all that comes with that. The base fusion lasts for five turns and transforming, which can only be done on the post of fusion, lowers this time limit, i.e. tier 1 - 4 posts, tier 2 - 3, ect. And to limit the strongest on the site from using it and decimating, Super Man Malus qualifiers can either not be able to fuse or have a very, very short fusion. Fusion can only be used once per thread and lower the fusees base pl by 25%, as it is shown to drain energy.
I don't think Potara should be implemented, as all the earrings were destroyed in the Buu Saga. And super powerful mind control can only be used if both players agree on it, with the controlled retaining some control much like Vegeta did with Babidi's mind control.
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Post by Kaula on Feb 1, 2016 21:22:26 GMT
1) Instant Transmission (and instantaneous teleportation techniques): The canonical form of this attack breaks several levels of game design - the ability to instantly travel between planets, the ability to instantly jump into any death enabled sagas at the expense of its current participants, an insta-dodge, so on, so forth. Flavor would be the way to go, probably, for just lolarriving in threads. Maybe allow them quicker space time at the most. But nah. No dodging. I think it'd be too OP unless it was an Ultimate and took up all 3 KP. Even then, it'd let everyone no-sell attacks 1000x stronger than them. Which I don't like. 2) Fusion Dance: The canonical form of this attack would instantly give a huge advantage to pretty much any player on the site. Even if balanced correctly, if two strong characters had this technique then they'd dominate. I gave loads of suggestions on this, one that even you and I worked on, Rev, if only briefly. But I still feel like we probably shouldn't go for it. 3) Potara Fusion: Same as above but with the added effects of being 1) canonically stronger and 2) permanent. Permanent till wished apart. Or dead, probably. S 4) Forced mind control (like Babidi's lesser lackies): we have "soft" mind control if the player allows it, but we do not have anything for forcing a player to act a certain way. I think this technique-type should stay forbidden. Same. There's my thoughts.
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Koramund
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Post by Koramund on Feb 1, 2016 21:28:00 GMT
So, as some of you are probably aware, there are some canon techniques that are, so far, completely no-go's: 1) Instant Transmission (and instantaneous teleportation techniques): The canonical form of this attack breaks several levels of game design - the ability to instantly travel between planets, the ability to instantly jump into any death enabled sagas at the expense of its current participants, an insta-dodge, so on, so forth. 2) Fusion Dance: The canonical form of this attack would instantly give a huge advantage to pretty much any player on the site. Even if balanced correctly, if two strong characters had this technique then they'd dominate. 3) Potara Fusion: Same as above but with the added effects of being 1) canonically stronger and 2) permanent. 4) Forced mind control (like Babidi's lesser lackies): we have "soft" mind control if the player allows it, but we do not have anything for forcing a player to act a certain way. I think this technique-type should stay forbidden.
So, friends, I'm opening the floor to you - should these techniques be implemented? If so, in what manner that it does not break the fairness of our game design? All my opinion! This Over powered Onion is probably terrible at balancing things out but... here we go 1 - Instant Transmission could be allowed as a Support technique that is allowed to reflavor your techniques, like instead of charging a foe with an attack they can teleport around them and fire it. The Instant Transmission can act like a Upgraded Space ship, it requires 10 Hours for a person to travel to another set of planets, but they can teleport in a single hour between planets inside that system (Like Arcose). In combat it can be a nonchargable Su3 dodge for 2kp. With this design, upgraded space ships can keep their glory of being 2 hours faster and the teleport itself is just a single KP less. Since it's more mentally straining, it allows for the person to fight longer while not being completely ground breaking. 2 - Same as below except 33% instead of 50%. It can last for 3 posts at first, but the more they fuse the more turns they gain. +1 turn until they hit 8 turns at max. Can only be used ONCE per thread. 3 - I say treat it like Namekian fusion, but also like a Bio android. One person can sacrifice themselves to give 50% of their Power level to the other person, and they both take control of the character. The non-sacrificed person has their move set and transformations, while the sacrificed person has their own move set. The main person will keep control until they willingly switch out, and the other person role plays as the combination. Each half will have their own private KP pool, but when they switch out the other person can not use a single KP. They must wait 1 turn for their ki to rebalance before they can use any KP. Both users gain a small 20% gains boost as long as they are coperating and not dominating. A staff member can give this at their leisure. This way both characters get a chance to play, and both have a incentive to be cooperative (a gains boost). Also, this gives moments of weakness for the players, for example when they are switching. If they are weakened for that one moment, it's the perfect chance to give a powerful blow to the now enhanced threat. 4 - I believe Alastair got a good version of it. The person will get a power boost between 1-10% depending on how the relationship between Master and servant is. The wielder of the spell is allowed to have up to 3 marks that subtly control and tempt a target. Masters and Servants have a permanent two way telepathy with each other, and the Master can attempt to command the Servant to do something. If the Servant agrees and a Staff member agrees that it was something they didn't want to do (Well roleplayed) or something very risky (Easier then a Zenkai, but on the same lines) they get a +1% to +3% on the scale. If the Servant breaks like Vegeta did, they will keep the boost for the thread, but it will shut down after wards and the Servant can never get the boost again.
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Post by Kaula on Feb 1, 2016 21:33:41 GMT
Only issue I see with Potara is that it'd be super easy to snag one on someone and just "Eat" their character. As for the others, I don't think they should be allowed for right now, at least. Fusion dance has possibilities, but you're right, it's far too easy to abuse. Also we, in all honesty, wouldn't allow that. That, or the person who tried to steal their character ends up being the one eaten because fuck them, right?
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Post by Paengi on Feb 1, 2016 21:35:42 GMT
Just reading through this and had a few thoughts. Fussion dance would need to be something like DE only, a decent boost, but afterwards the two at exhausted. So after the temp time they are together they fall apart with -3 KP or sometbing, so they need to wait three turns to even have 0 KP
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Post by Zuni on Feb 1, 2016 21:37:00 GMT
There is no conceivable reason why fusion dance should be, ICly, DE-only.
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Post by Paengi on Feb 1, 2016 21:40:18 GMT
There is no conceivable reason why fusion dance should be, ICly, DE-only. I'll go with whatever you guys decide on. I was just saying do they didn't fusion dance all the time
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Datura
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Post by Datura on Feb 1, 2016 21:56:50 GMT
So, as some of you are probably aware, there are some canon techniques that are, so far, completely no-go's: 1) Instant Transmission (and instantaneous teleportation techniques): The canonical form of this attack breaks several levels of game design - the ability to instantly travel between planets, the ability to instantly jump into any death enabled sagas at the expense of its current participants, an insta-dodge, so on, so forth. ( Instant Transmission. I would like to see it. It would be a good little tool. But limits have to be put on it. Yea goku had a few attacks he used with it. Also you have to figure out how a person would learn it. Cannoncally Goku learned fromThe Yardrats during his time on their planet No one else in the show did. So how would we learn it. 2) Fusion Dance: The canonical form of this attack would instantly give a huge advantage to pretty much any player on the site. Even if balanced correctly, if two strong characters had this technique then they'd dominate. (I'd say no. The Dance Fusion was learned in the afterlife. So story wise, some one could learn it from some one of that race . ) 3) Potara Fusion: Same as above but with the added effects of being 1) canonically stronger and 2) permanent. ( This one i could see, but a person would have recieve the earring from the kaios. ( i think they can form up a pair like they did on gohan when he wore the kaios clothing during training. ) And can only be fused with a quiting character, since it is permanate. Someone would have to give up a character . 4) Forced mind control (like Babidi's lesser lackies): we have "soft" mind control if the player allows it, but we do not have anything for forcing a player to act a certain way. I think this technique-type should stay forbidden. ( i would say a big no on this one. Due to the fact, i know personally, i wouldnt want anyone controling my character.
So, friends, I'm opening the floor to you - should these techniques be implemented? If so, in what manner that it does not break the fairness of our game design?
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