princess
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Post by princess on Sept 6, 2015 0:56:22 GMT
Shin-Jin
Starting Power: 500-1000
Appearance: Shin-Jin appear similar to humans in general terms of appearance, but their striking skin tones and pointed ears set them apart from other humanoids. Their skin tones range through a variety of colours, from light blues and purples through to human tones or even bright reds and pinks.
Background: Shin-Jin are born from the great Kaiju trees on the Sacred Planet of the Kais. Their lifespans far exceed mortal longevity, and this leads them to a ponderous lifestyle, often are they slow to act as they know full well they have the time left to think about something before committing to it. Once their homeworld was ravaged, and little of their race escaped, but as the vast stretch of time has passed,
Name Pun Theme: There isn’t a major theme running through the names of the the Shin-Jin, beyond their penchant for names starting with the letter ‘K’, as there is a long running superstition that names starting with K are more likely to be the names of Kais.
Unique Characteristics: Children of the Kaiju: Shin-Jin are not born from mothers as many other humanoid races are, but instead are born from the fruit of the great Kaiju trees. Located on planet Kaishin, the Kaiju trees are the lifeblood of the Shin-Jin race. The fruits that bear the Shin-Jin come in two varieties, and a Shin-Jin must choose which fruit bore them at character creation:
-Common Fruit: The standard fruit, unique to each tree, which bears a Shin-Jin destined to have the potential to be a Kai. With lifespans roughly 75,000 years long, these Shin-Jin often spend their time training and awaiting the day they have their chance of becoming a Kai. -Golden Fruit: Infinitely rarer than common fruits are the golden Kaiju fruits. These fruits bear Shin-Jin who will one day be the legendary Supreme Kais. Their lives span millions of years, their knowledge unmatched, and their power nothing to scoff at.
Potara Dominance: When fusing using Potara Earrings, Shin-Jin are always the dominant personality, their divine nature erasing any lesser essence it encounters. The exception to this rule is the difference in fruit, a Shin-Jin born of a Golden Fruit will always override a Shin-Jin born of a Common Fruit
Godly Wisdom: The Shin-Jin are not, for the most part, renowned for their combat ability. Most are watchful guardians and helpful adjutants, not frontline fighters. Instead, they focus on utilising their divine knowledge and wisdom to guide an ally in battle, allowing them to fight beyond limits they did not know they possess. A warrior fighting with the real time advice of a Shin-Jin (be they present for the battle or speaking via telepathy) may increase their transformations by +(2x) as long as the Shin-Jinis not participating in the battle themselves. Other Shin-Jin may not benefit from this characteristic. Their wisdom comes at a cost though, as mundane concepts like currency are beneath them, and they earn 10% less zenni in Zenni Threads.
Magic Materialisation: Shin-Jin are the God-People, and carry within them the potential to be gods of creation. Because of this, conjuring matter from nothing is a parlour trick for them. In combat, Shin-Jin need not wield a weapon or wear armour, as they can conjure with little effort the legendary metal Katchin, the strongest material in the universe. Matter created by this is not permanently made though, it takes a full Kai or four Shin-Jin to permanently create matter, most things made with this characteristic cease to exist a few seconds after creation. Simple objects like unarmoured clothing can be made permanently, for the Shin-Jin or their allies. Immortal Bodies: Shin-Jin, though long lived, are not immortal, though understandably it is easy for other races to confuse them as such. To further add to this belief is the fact that even the lowliest Shin-Jin outranks the highest of Ogres in the celestial scale. When a Shin-Jin dies, they retain their physical bodies free of charge, and may elect to return to Kaishin instead of passing through the checking station.
Transformations:
Mystic Awakening (x2)-Mystical power flows through the Shin-Jin, held in place by several psychic limitations. When a Shin-Jin finds their power is insufficient for the task at hand, they can access their true mystical powers, causing their hair to shift as though a strong wind was constantly blowing, and their pupils to vanish as their sclera radiates blue light.
Heightened Awakening (x4)-Attained through age or training, a Kai whose power level exceeds 50,000 finds their attunement to the universe around them vastly increased, allowing them to further exceed the limitations they keep in place. While visually no different to the Mystic Awakening, a Shin-Jin who is calling on their Divine Awakening is capable of incredible acts far beyond that of lesser beings. They exhibit powerful telekinesis and telepathy, able to lift great mass with their minds or communicate with allies from one side of a planet to the other.
Divine Awakening (x10)-The highest form of awakening available to the Shin-Jin, intense training while transformed allows them to draw on the full power of their heritage. As their power level exceeds 100,000, they learn how to force their power to increase their power beyond the limits inherent to their being. As they do so their bodies thin out and a faint blue light emanates from their entire bodies. The power increase allows them to fight more effectively, but the true strength of the Divine Awakening is the substantial increase to the Shin-Jin’s telepathy. Where once communicating from one continent to another was the extent of their abilities, now Shin-Jin can project their thoughts across the void of space, facilitating communication between planets.
Hand of the Kais (x18)- The Shin-Jin who have not been selected to be Kais often take their place at their master’s sides. As the right hand of the Kais, sometimes the Shin-Jin are required to step onto the field at their lords’ behest. Once a Shin-Jin attains a power level of 200,000, they can drawn on the strength of the Kais to empower them. Their movements become difficult to predict, and their telepathy reaches such incredible levels as to facilitate communication between the world of the living and the world of the dead.
Kai’s Will (x25)-Divine ki, a rare trait in the universe, and even amongst the Shin-Jin it is only a handful who ever manifest its power. Drawing on this incredible font of power is only possible for a Shin-Jin whose power level is greater than 350,000. A Shin-Jin using divine ki looks no different after they have transformed, and their telepathic prowess remains unmatched, but to those with the ability to sense their power know far too well what it is they are up against when they face down the closest thing they will ever meet to a god in battle.
Grand Shin-Jin (x42 Permanent)-The Kais are led by the Grand Kai, and historically the Supreme Kais too were led by a Grand Supreme Kai. The Shin-Jin who reach the pinnacle of their power, attaining a mighty 400,000 power level, become something more than Shin-Jin, but still less than a Kai. These are the Grand Shin-Jin, the greatest amongst their people. Their telekinesis and telepathy become inherent parts of their being, and their Magic Materialisation reaches the levels of a true Kai.
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princess
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Post by princess on Sept 6, 2015 1:05:12 GMT
So, my favourite DBZ character growing up was the Supreme Kai, legit. I thought he was awesome, he looked cool, had the best uniform, was a god, acted like he was the best right up until brutally realising he wasn't, then stayed on to help out with guidance and training. I always thought he was amazing, and the kais fighting Buu was the greatest little flash back of all to me. So naturally, I want to play a supreme kai if I can. Zucceta mentioned a worry that most people who would play a kai would get bored off them, as their role is essentially support, they guide other players, train them, and watch from afar, only stepping in when they have to. Which is fine with me, I main Sona in league, I enjoy me some good support. So, having just realised I am totally able to post this here and don't need to wait on the staff to post it on my behalf, I submit to those gathered my Kaioshin write up. I'm thinking of chucking a hard limit of 5 on, as that would be lore-friendly, maybe even a limit of 4 if we're assuming the Eastern Supreme Kai is still alive. I have a whole write up on the justification of why I'd be happy to play a Kai in my character posting, plus an explanation of why I made it as it is. So I shall pop both of those in spoilers and hope you all like what you see or at least can help guide me towards making this workable. Cheers all^^ Why is the app like it is?So I posted this because it's what I want to do, and aimed high with the characteristics because I'd rather write lots and only get some of it through than write very little and get it all through, then regret leaving stuff out later. I got told probably no, which is not no, so this is my first attempt at getting something through, yay!
The transformations are all at -2 except the first which is as normal and the last which is at +2 as long as only one character has it. The rules in the template state that aliens can add or subtract 2 from any transformation, and that if they add two they must also subtract two. It doesn't state if I subtract two I need to add two anywhere else, hence the Godly Wisdom trait, the two the Kai is passing up on they pass on to someone else. The idea is they will for the most part not be super powerful until the late game, and will instead focus on supporting people to make their allies more powerful. The plan is to work on a crystal ball so as to allow what the Kais actually did, which is giving advice through telepathy and using the ball to watch the battle to make the advice actually relevant.
The earrings, I did't see if they were on the site, if they are I'll tweak that if need be, else my plan was essentially you combine the powerlevels of both characters and divide the result by 1.5, then you have the amount of technique points that powerlevel would provide to buy back any techniques either character possessed, or apply for new combined versions/unique skills (Big Bang Kamehameha and Spirit Sword Slash being the inspiration for those options). Much like the actual Supreme Kais, though they possess the earrings, they have no idea they can be used to fuse, so they only have them to activate their awakenings until either an accident like Old Kai or they learn their true potential like the Eastern Supreme Kai. Why would I be suuuuper happy to play a Kai?So apparently can't edit that last post with my phone, so forgive the extra post, but figured I'd weigh up why I would be happy to play a Kai/why people may get bored so you can make an educated decision on if you want to take it to a vote or not:
1) Isolation: The sacred planet of the Kais isn't exactly accessible to most people, so a Kai would be stuck on their own until they left their home. This is no problem for me, it means I have time to train and learn the expectations of the game, plus develop my character on her own. Plus, while difficult, it's not impossible to leave or get to, so I can go explore the world once I feel I'm ready and can RP with anyone who makes the journey to the planet.
2) Support: The Kais main job isn't to be the main character, but to train and guide the main character. If I had an issue with this, I wouldn't have given them weaker transformations and a very obviously support ability. While I wouldn't want to play an NPC who doesn't grow and can't do anything but train people, a PC who fulfils a similar role is enjoyable to me. It lets my character, who will be quite a ways behind older players' characters, still have a meaningful impact on the series, just like how Suprene Kai was able to guide Goku and such even though he was clearly no match for the enemies he faced.
3) Responsibility: Presumably Kais will handle other world training for those who make it to their world. As a PC Kai, I would then logically have to train with other people if I was also on the world of the Kais. So that means the system is actively encouraging me to RP with people, and other people to RP with me? OH NO! I'LL HAVE TO PLAY THE GAME WITH PEOPLE! And as long as I word the posts right, presumably there is nothing to stop me benefitting from training other PCs, so this is all upside to me.
These are the three major reasons I could see people growing bored of a Kai, and all of them are reasons I want to play one on top of Kais being my favourite race in the lore. If you give me a Kai, I'll not be growing tired of it^^
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Xanthon
Rising Soul
PL: 7,870; Great Namek(x4): 31,480; Items: One-Use Spacepod; Zeni: 4,231
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Post by Xanthon on Sept 6, 2015 3:13:21 GMT
I feel like x50 is too high because you've said Kai's aren't meant to be like..combat oriented and x50 ties the highest trans for a combat oriented role plus the base pl is much lower for the Kai's iirc the highest trans had like base pls of the 500k and up. Correct me if I'm wrong though. I'd say lower the last trans to like 42-45 range. BUT I'm not a mod nor the smartest cookie so lol my opinion matters very very little.
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princess
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Post by princess on Sept 6, 2015 3:39:39 GMT
46 is the lowest it can be mechanically, as base is 48 and it can only be modified by +/-2, which is why I pushed it up but then put the limiter there, each other person with the trans weakens you until it's down to x40. If the staff put the cannon eastern supreme Kai in, he could reduce that, thus setting it to 48 base (which is normal for humanoid aliens) and then scaling down as people play Supreme Kais or the staff make more.
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Xanthon
Rising Soul
PL: 7,870; Great Namek(x4): 31,480; Items: One-Use Spacepod; Zeni: 4,231
Tag: @xanthon
Posts: 79
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Post by Xanthon on Sept 6, 2015 3:46:55 GMT
Ahh well GG non combat races get higher trans lol #Dbzlogic lol
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princess
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Post by princess on Sept 6, 2015 10:02:29 GMT
Alright, I have ignored the template, and redone the trans and shifted the starting PL up from 400-800 to 500-1,000. The numbers and costs are totally up for debate now, we've gone off the rails here, but I feel this accurately portrays their non-combat role while not rendering them utterly irrelevant should they be cornered.
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Post by Raisu Hanamura on Sept 6, 2015 14:18:30 GMT
Mechanics wise, a lot of the unique characteristics are certainly interesting but not really out of line. The only one I'm side eyeing is the Godly Wisdom trait, but that's mostly because I know very little about how gains are generated beyond basics like WC and modifiers. So, I'll leave that to people more knowledgable.
On the subject of transformation, they seem incredibly dependent on the Potara. In my opinion, given the multipliers you're going for, you could stand to remove the Potara requirement/cooldown from one of them.
And now lorewise: I don't know how people want to approach this in some regards. Are they bound to the other world? It would seem the answer is no, based on the Buu saga, but how do they leave the other world? Are they required to pay shoki like everyone else? Or do they have their own method. I would personally suggest that a seperate purchasable be available for them to move freely between worlds, as bound by regular travel threads. Of course, they would be bound to the other world in case of their death.
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Post by Kaula on Sept 6, 2015 21:24:31 GMT
All the supreme Kais are still alive in this canon. So no Supreme Kai PCs.
Besides, when you asked if you could be one when you first joined, I specifically told you that it would be best if you tried something else to start. :X
Maybe normal Shin-jin. But certainly not the Supreme variety.
Also on the terms of alien apps, you are allowed wiggle room to change the transformations about slightly. I think the highest the end trans can be for them is still x48, though.
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princess
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Post by princess on Sept 6, 2015 21:42:23 GMT
In cannon only two supreme Kais are left? The other poItions are never refilled as it's assumed Bibidi wrecks him some Kaiju trees. This template simply assumes that, sometime later, perhaps with East/Old Kai's involvement, new trees grew. So in cannon there is plenty of room to allow for four additional Supreme Kais.
And I know you said probably best to do something else, but I figured I'd give this a shot first anyway, coz if it doesn't work out nothing stops me from just making another character. As I said, this is just what I want to do, and why not aim high to start with?
So, I'll work in the background on a garden variety Shin-Jin, but I still want to push this one a little more, as I reckon it can be made workable.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 21:52:07 GMT
Normal Shin-jin might work. A supreme Kai PC as well seems a little... odd at least to start straight off. Perhaps make a normal shin-jin with goals of becoming on par with the supreme higher brethren?
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Post by Kaula on Sept 6, 2015 21:58:06 GMT
This is a quote from the owner of the site, Zucceta, when I asked about Supreme Kais. "100% no unless she wants to debate making Kais a teacher race/rank." You can still make a normal Kai (probably), but a supreme one..? EHhhh. EHHHHHHHHHH. I like Green's idea, though.
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princess
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Post by princess on Sept 6, 2015 22:00:41 GMT
They can't, you get born a supreme kai or wait for a regular Kai to die, then have a lottery to see if you get to take over. So while they could be cool, you'd essentially e playing Kibito, who is the least impressive of all the kai related beings Also, while I'm not sure what differentiates a race and a teacher race, if that means I have to train people I've already said I'm fine with that.
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Zucceta
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Post by Zucceta on Sept 6, 2015 22:01:53 GMT
I am all for making a 'Shin-jin' race based in the AL that serve as a support role. However, with a wealth of past experience, I can say that players always grow bored of playing a Kaioshin within the role they are supposed; hanging around the Afterlife, unless some chaotic force literally threatens all existence.
However, if we make playable Kaioshin a thing, we'll need to rehash the debate about playable afterlife tutors, because thats the only role I'm comfortable with them in (and even then, not much faith these days).
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Post by Hyoza on Sept 6, 2015 22:05:58 GMT
My position on this is firmly in the negative, and here's why:
Supreme Kais are gods of creation. Their job is explicitly to make things and oversee the universe along with their counterpart, the God of Destruction, who fulfills an opposing role allowing there to be a cycle of renewal. The Supreme Kai role basically means they sit on their planet for millennia at a time (their lifespan is like 50 million years or something ludicrous), and ensure things proceed as they're supposed to. Through all of DBZ, the surviving Supreme Kai (Formerly the East Kaioshin) NEVER gets involved in the affairs of the 'mortal realm'. The one exception is when Babidi sets about resurrecting Majin Buu - who is a threat to the order of the entire universe. This site has no such threats, nor is it ever likely to. There's no legitimate reason for a PC Supreme Kai to get involved with other players.
The Supreme Kais do not train deceased mortals, they do not interfere in their affairs, they do not take sides. Supreme Kai was well aware of Frieza's tyrannical Planet Trade Organisation - who made dozens of species extinct and destroyed a multitude of worlds - and he did NOTHING. The 'original' pantheon of kaioshin were aware of Kid Buu's rampage, and likewise took no action until he arrived on their world with the intention of exterminating them. Their job is to observe and build - unless the very order of the universe is threatened, they won't do anything about it. A player who actually adheres to canon in this regard is going to get bored reeeal fast.
Unless you want to go against the canonical function of a kaioshin (which i will always be against), there's really nothing for them to do as PCs.
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princess
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Post by princess on Sept 6, 2015 22:19:05 GMT
My plan was essentially to sit aside and wait for sagas and then judge which of them to get involved in, and have a little personal issue with majin buu since not much in the way of training for a modern Kai given they're almost all dead, so a slight impetuousness I wouldn't feel too hard to justify.
Okay, I'm at work so I have to wait for my lunch break to type it, but I have one final ditch effort to salvage this ere I accept its defeat, so don't move it to dead stuff just yet please.
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Okay, so, I did me some researching, pulling out all the stops to see if I can't justify this somehow, and I reckon I have something.
Now, to start with, we have Yo! Son Goku and his freinds return!, which has both Old Kai and Kibito Kai at Hercule's party, plus they're in the intro. Now, before battle of gods, this was totally just a random OVA, meant nothing, and we could all ignore it, lucky us.
Then, Battle of Gods turned up, and Bulma, in a cannon special, makes a reference to Tarble (somewhat indirectly, but it's either that or there's another nice younger brother somewhere in the universe that no one knows about, and I doubt that), so not only do we know Tarble is cannon, but so to must be the events in which Bulma met him, as how else would she know he was a nice saiyan? So, following that reason, it would stand to reason that both Old Kai and Kibito Kai rocked up to Earth for Hercule's party, which follows on with Kibito Kai's increasing admiration of earth. Then, in BoG itself, the two actively step in to warn King Kai about Beerus, and then are shown to be watching the fate of Earth very closely.
Plus, Super, they still exist there, but in the interest of not spoiling I shall not go into details.
So, my thinking is, unlike when he was Supreme Kai originally, Kibito Kai is a lot more willing to be involved in the universe. He's actively fought a villain, nearly died doing so, and has kept a close eye on Earth ever since, what with his admiration of the planet and so on. So, if modern Kaioshin were raised by Kibito Kai, it could stand that they would be more willing to be involved in the universe, or at the very least in Earth. Yes, it's changing the original purpose of the Supreme Kais, but Toriyama is doing that on his own, I'm just expanding from that. All in all, I think there's ample cannon justification for a new outlook for the Supreme Kais that would see them be more active, Kibito Kai has seen what being overly passive can lead to, if anyone was going to change things it would be him. So if we have him as an NPC, and then player Kaioshin working with him to train the heroes of Earth and assist/guide it through troublesome times, I think we have a justifable way to make them playable, relevant, and enjoyable. Or if you still think any race needs to be one that is super involved in everything, hell he can make them spend 1,000 years in the universe before they can return to the Sacred World of the Kais to live, because they need to understand creation to protect it/propagate it.
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