Hitake Itori
Rising Soul
PL: 13,972; Oozaru (x10): 139,720; Items: One Use Pod; Heavy Weights- 3493 | 34,930;Zeni: 611
Tag: @hiratakefujitora
Posts: 111
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Post by Hitake Itori on Nov 15, 2014 7:11:09 GMT
So, there has been light on something recently dealing with weights, gravity chambers and houses. This something was that the effects of these did not stack. I was told it was an old ruling from the older site which is fine. I have however been unable to find an updated ruling on this on the site. If there is one I would greatly appreciate a link to the ruling so that I may share it with others.
If there is not I would suggest adding at least a (side note) on the items that they do not stack so there is no further confusion. And if anyone has any other things like this they would like to bring to light and to discussion, please do.
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Post by President Bao on Nov 15, 2014 12:45:00 GMT
Bao to the explainscue (like a rescue but with more information or something) Okay, so, I'd like to begin by issuing an official apology. In an attempt to apply existing rules to newly added content, I have erroneously overstepped the bounds of an administrator(under the Souls definition of the role). Totally my fault, so I leave it in the hands of the community what sort of repercussions I should face for having breached a tenant of this sites operation. Current verdict(an inherited ruling) is that different bought sources of pl enhancement do not stack with each other - eg. people cannot stack two lots of weights onto their character. As you know, a suggestion I submitted to site patch was that buildings would provide a power level enhancing effect (because it is one of the few reward systems we have available), and so since mechanically it worked like weights the assumption I had been operating under was that it would therefore follow that same rule. What I *should* have done however(and will be doing here) was specifically hosting a discussion (and vote), to decide how these things should be handled given that this is a new situation and new item. ---- Okay, to do the usual 'my personal feelings on the matter is'... I'm very fatigued so just gonna summarise or something; To many mutipliers means a large gap will open between different players, which isn't fun for either party. (the one who becomes too strong has no one to play against properly, robbing them of their achievement/punishing them for their work, and the others don't want to fight with this juggernaut of a character). The current distinction between each type of bought enhancement, when talking about it's pl effects, are: Gravity; - medium cost (but requires prerequisite ship/building) - best max mutiplier, (+150%) - but must be worked towards, is limited to two sessions per week, stationary location Weights; - low cost - second best max mutiplier, (+75%) - No use limit, but reduces battle power when use, completely portable House - - higher cost - lowest max mutiplier, (+50%) - No use limit or other demerits, but is stationary location ---- Emer's post in here does well to demonstrate some of the math of how stacking would shape things, and is easy than writing out an example myself: wodsouls.freeforums.net/thread/1105/weights-gravity-balance-unbalancedHis starting number may be considered a bit large, but even if you remove a 0 you can still see how it influences things. (and that's only using 50x gravity) Concern to be noted is that the numbers may get a little too high if stacked given the weren't designed with that in mind, which may make the bad, (brain has officially shut down sorry guys). Do the words thing below where you say stuff.
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Hitake Itori
Rising Soul
PL: 13,972; Oozaru (x10): 139,720; Items: One Use Pod; Heavy Weights- 3493 | 34,930;Zeni: 611
Tag: @hiratakefujitora
Posts: 111
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Post by Hitake Itori on Nov 15, 2014 16:42:48 GMT
Its okee Bao. It was a ruling from before, just some people didn't really know it was. I don't think were going to have to make Bao shave his head!
I agree with you though. If you stack things together to a point it gets kind of ridiculous for all parties. Considering what you told me when I joined was that you want to be more about the role play and story and less on rushing power level.
However, I think that having a home to train in sometimes for +50% with yourself or friends unlimited(with other people) is very nice. Mainly so after the fact if weights do eventually taper off in benefits. Its a constant that is simply there because it works and its a nice little kick to owning a home that makes it really worth it.
The gravity chamber is an investment that is only usable twice a week and only goes up by 10x every week. Eventually it becomes the current greatest way to train over time. However I feel that even it should slowly drop off in gains once your body has sufficiently trained under it and becomes used to the effects to the point you no longer have to fight to withstand its influence.
The only thing that makes me scratch my head is about about the master boost if they have weights? Would it simply be the highest of the two?(the weights)
I feel and vote that the ruling is sound and is in place so that people can't abuse the items and get to crazy with it. So I say keep the old ruling on this, just make sure its added to the items themselves or in the mechanics ruling that they don't stack. What does everyone else think?
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Kadbra
Rising Soul
PL: 23,827; Demonic Will (x3): 71,481 Makyo (x8) 190,616; Items: Heavy Weights (3,144.5 | 9,433.5 | 25,156); One-Use Space Pod; Black Great Sword; Senzu Bean 1; Zeni: 404
Tag: @kadbra
Posts: 106
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Post by Kadbra on Nov 15, 2014 18:53:00 GMT
The ruling of no stacking makes sense to hamper the issue of gigantic power level distances developing, even if they make no logical sense (10 times gravity would mean your weighs are also 10 times their original weight now, after all) - logic isn't as important as good RP here.
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Nov 15, 2014 20:53:55 GMT
It's why I was proposing the smaller gains in all 3 sets of weights, as well as how'd they lose potential to become stronger at the maximum possible section.
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Hitake Itori
Rising Soul
PL: 13,972; Oozaru (x10): 139,720; Items: One Use Pod; Heavy Weights- 3493 | 34,930;Zeni: 611
Tag: @hiratakefujitora
Posts: 111
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Post by Hitake Itori on Nov 16, 2014 1:40:35 GMT
I have currently tossed up a poll for members to utilize!
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Hitake Itori
Rising Soul
PL: 13,972; Oozaru (x10): 139,720; Items: One Use Pod; Heavy Weights- 3493 | 34,930;Zeni: 611
Tag: @hiratakefujitora
Posts: 111
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Post by Hitake Itori on Nov 18, 2014 7:51:46 GMT
The current results show that out of 10 people that voted, most of them do want the weights, the buildings, and gravity chamber to stack
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Nov 18, 2014 7:53:25 GMT
We must now figure if we want diminishing rewards with the things stacking or not. I shall set up the final poll for this section! Once that's figured, we will discuss how they'll be diminishing.
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Nov 20, 2014 6:42:07 GMT
With the changes being implemented to Weights, I'd like to shift our next conversation over to here, if you please. The polls will reopen once more, so that we can get a better understand of what everyone wants as a community.
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Koramund
Archived
PL: 121,168
Bio Metabolize(x3)
Zeni: 2,003
Shoki: 7,708
Tag: @koramund
OOC Name: Saiyan, Namekian, Human
Posts: 694
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Post by Koramund on Nov 22, 2014 15:38:23 GMT
I think I have a little suggestion myself here. I know its not the popular choice but its an option, what if we do the rule as it CAN stack, but the lowest modifier times 2/3 is the hard cap. For example, I have heavy weights and I am in a 150% Gravity chamber, and I am in my own house. The lowest modifier is the house at +50%, so in total I can only get +100% For that thread, but if I remove the house, and the lowest becomes the heavy weights at 75%, the max I can have is a +150% boost, effectively cutting half of the boost from the +150% Gravity chamber off. This also allows some people with not as much Zeni to buy a Shop for the Zeni boost, and not need as much Zeni in total to get the boosts (In this case, all you need is a 80% Gravity chamber, and heavy weights, the rest would just lower/gain no boost).
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Hitake Itori
Rising Soul
PL: 13,972; Oozaru (x10): 139,720; Items: One Use Pod; Heavy Weights- 3493 | 34,930;Zeni: 611
Tag: @hiratakefujitora
Posts: 111
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Post by Hitake Itori on Nov 22, 2014 19:55:38 GMT
Alright, so as it currently is, your grade is based on your highest multiplier right now between your weights house or gravity chamber(So if you had a 150x gravity chamber that would be your boost). I would also like to state that you would have to account for other grading bonuses because you get bonuses outside of your own boost items for grading which can be a decent amount as well. Keep this in mind. The system may have to be changed with that idea. I for one whoever do not like hard caps.
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Nov 22, 2014 21:38:24 GMT
Actually have had a change of heart and changed my vote to yes, but with diminishing rewards over time. As it is right now, the biggest matter, I'd say, are the weights themselves still. We've agreed to there being diminished rewards over time, but there's still the problem on the stupendously high amount the weights give you, until you hit the point of where weights don't affect your gains for what they're worth. I'd prefer if they suppressed power level by intervals, for the respective weights from light to heavy, be 10%, 25%, 50% with the stated numbers increase the power level by that much. That, though, is a different discussion on the values weights themselves use.
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Hitake Itori
Rising Soul
PL: 13,972; Oozaru (x10): 139,720; Items: One Use Pod; Heavy Weights- 3493 | 34,930;Zeni: 611
Tag: @hiratakefujitora
Posts: 111
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Post by Hitake Itori on Nov 22, 2014 21:58:57 GMT
Please keep in mind the current issue here at hand is whether weights + gc + house should stack all together. This is not just about weights. This about having the potential to have 150% gc + 50% house + 75% weights(275%) (plus bonuses that are given outside of those specific boosts) stacking. A lot of people feel its to high, as do I.
Even if the weights themselves are lowered in how much they give over all, everything else stacking still feels a bit to much. Besides, I feel it might be hard to get both a reduction in gains over time until it hits 0% AND a reduction in bonuses given straight up.
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