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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2014 23:16:11 GMT
It has become apparent that weighted training, especially with heavy weights, is a popular way to train on here. Yet as can be seen by a few gains from these weights (primarily Emer and Nai-Ran as examples) the value of weights has allowed them to maybe outclass their fellow role players too much. As such, I'd like to potentially begin the process of cutting back on what heavy weights can give a player as their power grows. I was thinking the same for other weights too, but at a later point and time.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2014 23:27:34 GMT
Oni I think we should add in ALL Weights lose their effectiveness as people gain strength. As the only thing that enhanced strength at a regular rate seemed to be gravity training.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2014 23:43:53 GMT
Hm, well, for right now I figured the members would vote on one just to see how exactly this will work. I'll have a vote on the other two after this, but for now I'll leave this open for more people to vote on.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2014 23:57:57 GMT
Honestly weights all around seem like quite a bit too high of a boost and reduction, considering you aren't really in any real danger when you wear the weights because you can just toss them off and most of us can write enough to get them in a day or two of play. It isn't really delayed gratification when it is that easy to obtain them.
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Post by Wyntre Cold on Nov 7, 2014 23:59:49 GMT
How about we do the same, only at 50k, 100k and 150k?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2014 0:04:43 GMT
I'm not sure what to say on that yet Wyntre. But the vote's definitely split on this one.
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Nov 8, 2014 4:18:48 GMT
I present this thought to you all, to perhaps give you an idea on what to do for weights:
The concept of weights is that, as you get stronger, those weights begin to feel 'light' to you, but only because you're getting so strong. I suggest that, in order to get that extreme effectiveness going for you, you need to invest in it much more, or find someone or something that can increase the weights of your current ones to challenge you until those upgraded weights begin to feel that lightness again (think of when Goku training in Other World with King Kai after the Cell Saga when the South Kai comes up and brags about his fighter being able to beat Goku. King Kai increases the weights to make it more difficult for Goku to move about.)
The best idea for following this sort of set up would be to, instead, go by a rough pricing of the weights via the amount of Power Level Suppression they follow. So, say that someone with 100,000 power level wants really good Medium weights to help him train for a time being. The power reduction is by 50%, so the price would be 50,000 zeni for it. The effective training is proving successful, until the player reaches the value at which the player bought it at.
With the following statement, I'll explain the cut off section, when it doesn't effect them. At 50% of the player's power level, it is doing its full job. However, as the player gets more power level (going with the 100,000 pl=50,000 zeni buy), the percentage of this gets lower, specifically when the values make it so that the weights now only consist of 25% of the value; 200,000 power level in the mentioned example. So, what happens next is that the training value decreases to only giving 25% of the gains (effectively making those particular weights 'Light weights,' to the original user or someone of equal strength). When the player reaches the point of making the weights decrease their power by 10%, they lose the benefits and must acquire a newer set.
What this will offer is this: Warrior characters and support characters can become clearly defined, though both gain power level and zeni as normal. Perhaps someone who's focused on gaining zeni can acquire these weights (this is going in conjunction on my thought with Allied cash which I will elaborate on later).
Another thought I had in mind, to define when the weights become ineffective is when they gain up to x3 the original buy. So, if we were to use the 50,000 zeni purchased medium weights, they'd offer the character a faster increase up to 150,000 power level, losing half its effectiveness at the halfway mark (150,000/2=75,000 in the case of this particular example). This would make it so we'd have to seek out other training methods and machinery to help our warrior characters increase in power.
That's my thought on this particular portion. Moving on to Allied Cash, I go!
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Post by President Bao on Nov 8, 2014 7:57:56 GMT
Previous mechanic on resurrection (that we hadn't yet bothered to re-implement because no one even had weights yet) was: Read more: wodresurrection.proboards.com/thread/4987/new-weight-limits#ixzz3ISNuXwjGI have no issue with bringing that back personally, it's return was something that I personally assumed would be enacted when it come up. (makes sense, weights are an early game item, gravity is what you should be using later on). Haven't actually given any thought/review to the numbers them self.
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Nov 9, 2014 7:37:08 GMT
I just had a new thought, as I was bringing up the thread about whether or not combining weights and gravity chambers would be balanced or not. The gains are actually far more than what the weights are decreasing, in particular with the Heavy weights. This portion I wanted to establish, first, before I present my actual thought: We all agree on the point that the weights did, in fact, begin to fall out of favor because we're following the intentions of the series, right? The enemies the z fighters fought had gone beyond the already insane training, so they had to embark the even more insane training moments, like going to freaking meteorites and blowing them to bits, whilst being pelted by said meteorites (Vegeta's training); using gravity chambers that went all the way up to x500 gravity (give Yamcha a clap for surviving for some time before the emergency switch was pulled!); the usage of interdimensional planes, and weirdly effective rituals! That's just my ranting, so bare with me for a moment. When Vegeta, Goku, and Trunks all trained in their respective gravity chambers, remember that they had weights that got extremely heavy when they flipped the gravity? We should be able to apply that same logic to here, but decrease weights in the following manners: Light Weights: 10% increase in pl gains, at the cost of 10% of player pl being restricted. When the player using these weights reaches 50k pl, the weights become ineffective until being used in x10 gravity or higher. Medium Weights: 25% increase in pl gains, at the cost of 25% of player pl being restricted. When the player using these weights hits 100k pl, the weights become ineffective until being used in x10 gravity or higher. Heavy Weights: 50% increase in pl gains, at the cost of 50% of player pl being restricted. When the player using these weights hits 200k pl, the weights become ineffective until being used in x10 gravity or higher. Ok, that's my new, much more reasonable thought. When everyone's voted on what they want for weights, head over to this thread to finalize what should or shouldn't happen when weights and gravity are combined: I AM THE THING THAT MUST BE CLICKERED FOR INFOS!
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Hitake Itori
Rising Soul
PL: 13,972; Oozaru (x10): 139,720; Items: One Use Pod; Heavy Weights- 3493 | 34,930;Zeni: 611
Tag: @hiratakefujitora
Posts: 111
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Post by Hitake Itori on Nov 12, 2014 19:24:13 GMT
I feel that weights should lose their over all benefits over time as the user gets stronger. Eventually weights just aren't going to cut it for training when you reach a certain point. I get that some people want to keep the investment they put into the weights by allowing them to be useful in some way later down the road, which IS doable with the gravity chamber, but I think we should just be able to get rid of them at that point.
For instance, passing them on to a student, or even selling them to another player icly even for a reduced cost if you wanted to. (Granted I do not assume you can sell them to someone freely, however I hope you can pass them on freely)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 19:34:22 GMT
You can sell/trade them freely, if the other person also agree's on purchasing it for the amount you list, I do believe I want to get an Auction center here in a bit, where people could buy others old equipment and use for themselves.
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Hitake Itori
Rising Soul
PL: 13,972; Oozaru (x10): 139,720; Items: One Use Pod; Heavy Weights- 3493 | 34,930;Zeni: 611
Tag: @hiratakefujitora
Posts: 111
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Post by Hitake Itori on Nov 15, 2014 6:18:23 GMT
Another question is. Is this before you guys lower the boost the weights give naturally or after?
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Nov 18, 2014 6:51:00 GMT
I wanna show something, reflecting the gains of 3/4 of our players, particularly with Emer's gains: wodsouls.freeforums.net/thread/1040/wounded-friend-emer-nai-ninjin?page=2The thread was well done, setting in motion relationships that'll begin to bond the characters together, but can perhaps tragically split them apart, with Emer's hatred for saiyans. Ninjin, herself, is a half saiyan, but still that half is a ticking time bomb waiting to happen, once the tail sprouts... If it sprouts, though. But, lemme move on to what happened here, focusing in on Emer's gains. This was his house, so he himself was gaining the house's benefits, on top of the fact he's wearing heavy weights. He's gaining a massive 125%+ increase from that, as well for rping with other players for an additional 20% (mingle people) and getting the natural grade not including those modifiers, which was, itself, pretty good. This meant, on top of the 145%+ pl for just these pre-existing conditions, he's yielded at least an additional 60% (Minimum. Not gonna give the exact number. Just know is that it was higher than 60%. ) for a total pl gain of 205%+ pl... That's a massive gain. I mean, a REALLY MASSIVE GAIN. That's why I'm proposing my 2nd idea for the system, to make the weights reasonable. While, yeah, they're suppose to help increase power level and restrict it while being worn, but they didn't restrict the weights by a lot when the Z fighters used them. The weights we're using, as well as their gains, are massive beyond belief. It's why I propose a simple 10% for light weights, 25% for medium weights, and 50% for heavy weights. Either that or, going off on a limb here, we combine the two ideas I proposed (degrading levels of power level gain and a transfer to what was once heavy at power level A is now Light at power Level B) and decreasing power level by 10%, 25%, and 50% for the weight types each, so they're not so significantly game changing.
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Hitake Itori
Rising Soul
PL: 13,972; Oozaru (x10): 139,720; Items: One Use Pod; Heavy Weights- 3493 | 34,930;Zeni: 611
Tag: @hiratakefujitora
Posts: 111
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Post by Hitake Itori on Nov 20, 2014 1:56:21 GMT
Well that needs to be pitched up in another thread Pieter. THIS thread was to reduce how much you get from weights over time and it looks like it was passed that
80,000 PL: Heavy Weights become less effective and only offer 50% of the value they would to players. 140,000 PL: Heavy Weights become even less effective and only offer 25% of the value they would to players. 190,000 PL: Heavy Weights become so ineffective they offer no more training value to the player.
With this being said, the light and medium weights may need to be effected in same way as well. Because this only effects heavy weights.
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Nov 20, 2014 6:39:24 GMT
Alright, so it's been decided! Now, we need to continue discussion on the stacking of weights with houses and gravity chambers... In another thread. I've brought up a thought about if the the weights, themselves, regain effectiveness in Gravity chambers, up to x150 gravity, in this thread: wodsouls.freeforums.net/thread/1105/weights-gravity-balance-unbalancedIt's a thought I've had in mind that should be held off until a different time. We DO need to discuss more about stacking weights with the other power level boosters, in the mean time!
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