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Post by Zuni on Feb 3, 2016 20:01:52 GMT
Actually, I bought the guards specifically so that they could be punked by low-level heroes; they aren't there to be legitimately useful.
As to all the other points...
I put the death penalty in because it is bloody weird for important, named NPCs to die and then trundle in off stage as though nothing ever happened. A week's cooldown would be acceptable to me as well, but it ought to be noted that there is some story reason attached to their 'recovery' be it advanced medical attention or whatever.
The 200% cap was also to allow people to have more than 1 75% minion. A 150% cap might work just as well; 6 25%, 3 50% or 2 75%.
I understand the points Habana is making regarding plot and making IC sense but, frankly, I just disagree with her on that so I'm not going to continue reiterating the same points over and over again. I think most people understand the reasons for and against that part of the proposal at this point and can make up their own mind as to whether they want to allow one player to dominate multiple areas of the game or not.
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Otto
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Post by Otto on Feb 3, 2016 20:06:54 GMT
It wouldn't have to necessarily be the same minion ICly, but if you bought the slot then you should have the capacity to "replace" the minion ICly.
@kat New people influencing sagas isn't really a thing anyways, because you die. Minions don't change that. If we want lower pl dudes starting sagas we'd have to artificially pl cap sagas or something.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2016 20:07:05 GMT
Earlier you brought up the concept that from a story point of view there's functionally no difference between Minions and Guards. So I have to ask. What is the benefit to the STORY to be able to send both Minions and Guards off to other planets to muck around? Is it not possible to provide whatever impetus you're wanting to achieve in a story by sending a guard instead of a minion? Essentially, storytelling wise, what's the difference between a Minion and a Guard?
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Queen Habana
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Post by Queen Habana on Feb 3, 2016 20:10:15 GMT
Guards are for the most part disposable mooks by design, they are the random frieza soldiers. Minions are your more impressive people, usually named NPC's with a specific background.
Story wise its more logical to send the trusted friend/ally to handle business on a planet than a random mook.
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Otto
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Post by Otto on Feb 3, 2016 20:16:26 GMT
I just think it would be better to reconsider this to prevent high levels from zoning in as frequently. If travel times were back to what they were, even with a minion it'd require some strategic positioning. Right now a high player doesn't even need minions to influence anything happening in the game.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2016 20:18:23 GMT
Yet I can have a Guard who is my character's friend, a close friend who they trust dearly, they just don't gain any power from the time they're bought. The only difference between a Minion and a Guard is pure mechanics. The reasoning behind allowing Guards to go elsewhere while Minions can't is to give Guards a justification for their higher cost mechanically. If you want a sidekick/friend go off to another planet, why not buy a Guard, fluff it as the Minion saying that when not with you they have a weaker will to fight and thus aren't as strong, and call it a day? EDIT: Otto When you join a DE you cannot make any other threads until you finish or leave that DE. If a PC joins a DE they can't travel elsewhere no matter what the time is to get from one planet to another.
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Post by Zuni on Feb 3, 2016 20:27:05 GMT
I just think it would be better to reconsider this to prevent high levels from zoning in as frequently. If travel times were back to what they were, even with a minion it'd require some strategic positioning. Right now a high player doesn't even need minions to influence anything happening in the game. Travel times are not the hypothetical problem. Taking part in multiple sagas and/or influencing multiple spheres simultaneously as an individual are a problem. Now, we could just make a rule that says 'minions cannot enter DEs without your character being present' but from what I understand of Habana's issue with the proposal, that would not be enough. I am also somewhat uncomfortable with the idea of minions being able to kill other characters at all if there is no cost associated with their own destruction.
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Vi-Poi
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Post by Vi-Poi on Feb 3, 2016 20:40:31 GMT
I agree there should be some sort of cost to Minion/Guard death, since they can kill. I'm fine with making it lower than having to rebuy them, that makes sense.
I think the argument boils down to Minions are already very powerful and very useful (an effective +2.5x up to +22.5x on attacks for not that much Zeni). Allowing them to be used as roving spoilers or Saga-preventers could create problems, especially if multiple people in a faction max out their minion %.
We want players to effect the plot, and this could further concentrate the story into a handful of the strongest and buffer them from any upheavals.
I think when we talk about making changes like this, we have to consider what it would look like if developed maturely down the road, just as AL training is about to hit big peaks as people progress in power, strong factions will continue to progress in strength and be able to buy a lot of minions.
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Zucceta
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Post by Zucceta on Feb 3, 2016 20:47:36 GMT
I agree with all of Zuni's original points about Minions (they are, in fact, what I was going to implement (w/ slight variation) regardless before I saw this discussion thread), except for I want the max % cap to be 200%/3 MINIONS--so no buying 8 25% minions, imo.
I'd also feel like "minions staying in the same zones as their owners" can be clarified to be on the same planet or "galactic zone" if you're in the SSE or AF areas of roleplay (which are, ostensibly, just slightly flavoured planets in relation to the Earth or Namek zones).
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Post by Nostalgic Ayumu on Feb 3, 2016 20:50:03 GMT
Question, Do minions&Gaurds have their own KP?
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Zucceta
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Post by Zucceta on Feb 3, 2016 20:50:48 GMT
Question, Do minions&Gaurds have their own KP? Yes.
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Post by Nostalgic Ayumu on Feb 3, 2016 20:52:10 GMT
Thank you for answering :3
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Post by Pin on Feb 3, 2016 21:12:07 GMT
When it comes to a super badass controlling 3 Sagas as was mentioned, it's also important to note that this would then require the badass in question to have a way of moving his minions around the universe fairly freely - potentially owning 3 spaceships.
Why not, instead of chaining minions to a player, do the following: 1) Make it so minions cannot in any way enter into a Saga without their respective PC in the area OR 2) Limit the number of ships a player can own?
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Zucceta
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Post by Zucceta on Feb 3, 2016 21:15:24 GMT
Minions are ostensibly chained to a player due to their natures as items. You can argue the same for guards, I guess, but guards have the detriment of being a) expensive and b) weaker.
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Bing Gan
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Post by Bing Gan on Feb 3, 2016 23:30:45 GMT
Guards are just for like... people like Kocha and Tania . If you are planning to gain pl, unless you are just doing it for fun... it isn't really balanced around you. OH I SEE HOW IT IS OTTO! JUST IGNORE BREECH ENTIRELY (no it's fine really )
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