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Post by Zuni on Feb 2, 2016 14:05:03 GMT
So there's some confusion about what happens when a minion or guard dies, and whether a minion or guard can be left on another planet. I would like to make the following suggestions - which may have been brought up before but I genuinely can't remember. Some of these things are also currently the rules and some aren't, this is just how I think the system should work.
Minions *Are a percentage of your PL (and thus quickly become more powerful than even the most expensive guards) *Should have a maximum cap of 200% of your PL *Should require 750/1500/2250 (based on 25/50/75%) zeni to 'bring back to life' but may be played in the Afterlife for zeni only. Alternatively, they may escape with their owner if both the owner and the minion die. *May not RP in a different 'zone' to their owner (zone in this case referring to Earth, Namek, Saiyan Solar Empire, Arcosian Fiefdoms, and Free Space) with the exception of the Afterlife. Minions may RP on different planets/areas within the same zone if given a means of travel, however. Such powerful servants must be within easy reach of their owner!
Guards *Are a set PL and ludicrously expensive at the higher levels for characters who will still be beaten by most PCs within a month of play - where minions represent notable and important characters in their own right, guards are disposable assets. *Should not have a maximum cap. You can buy as many of these chumps as you like. *Do not require a zeni cost to 'bring back to life'. You can hire more, rebuild the body, whatever. No explanation required. *May RP in any area where they are left, but may never appear in the Afterlife.
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Post by Defrosch on Feb 3, 2016 9:04:40 GMT
Yeah I think this is legit, theres enough here to differentiate and give pros and cons to both. I'm cool with this possibly being how Minion/Guards work.
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Nicolas Mclendon
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Post by Nicolas Mclendon on Feb 3, 2016 9:27:56 GMT
I don't understand the reasoning for requiring sidekicks and players to stay in the same zone but guards can rp wherever.
Sidekicks are separate characters that can be played in stand alone threads, guards are typically treated as mooks.
The cap seems like it isn't super necessary considering how much Zeni is required for the minions but 200%-300% isn't terrible
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Post by Zuni on Feb 3, 2016 9:54:19 GMT
The logic for requiring sidekicks to stay in the same zone is to stop one player + sidekicks from dominating multiple areas of the site in the late game. A 25% minion at 500k would have a PL of 125k - enough to be a very significant factor to most areas and completely outside the realm of possibility for starting PCs to consider fighting, and that's the lowest of the levels. As they get higher, it would be theoretically possible to have one character able to significantly influence all of the major areas in the game simultaneously, and we don't want that.
The cap is also a way to stop things just getting ridiculous. If Reikiko, for instance, started buying 25% guards right now she could get 1,250,000pl added to her combat potential for every 7500 zeni she cared to toss at it. There has to be an upper limit to stop zeni just becoming the best way to get pl past a certain point. The minion system is open to pretty significant abuse if there aren't limiting factors in place.
Guards, however, are largely irrelevant compared to PCs past a certain point and cost prohibitive amounts for the levels where they can reliably take on even starting level PCs with any kind of regularity.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2016 10:43:08 GMT
I'm loving these suggestions Zuni, where's the vote button?!
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Bing Gan
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Post by Bing Gan on Feb 3, 2016 10:46:25 GMT
I pretty much had the same thought mechanically for this.
I'm in agreement with this set of restrictions pretty much entirely.
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Post by Nostalgic Ayumu on Feb 3, 2016 11:01:20 GMT
Questions!
"Are you allowed to switch out Minions?" (The PL % ones) Like, i am right now in the desert, i have a minion that works in the desert usually and one of my minions cannot handle the winter, am i allowed to still have 4 minions but i just use some in certain threads and others in another?
"Can Higher % Minions downscale?" I tend to get a select few minions to really play around with, but i would rather have 5-6 orso stuck at 75% and have a choice at which one for that thread is the 50% depending on the plot revelant. Would this be allowed?
"Can Gaurds travel from planet to planet on their own and start up Saga's?" Lets say i have... Yeah, lets make this insane okay. There is a tree of might on kar, nobody is stopping it, but i start sending gaurds at it. Just, Gaurd after Gaurd after Gaurd, untill all 300 had a single post to draw time and other people have managed to enter the thread. Just travelling on their own and spreading news and maybe even making contacts for spies and such may seem fun but how is abuse then limited?
(That is all questions i can think of now)
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Post by Zuni on Feb 3, 2016 11:08:11 GMT
I would say:
Are you allowed to switch out minions?
Each individual minion is bought separately (for techniques etc). If you want to switch a minion for another minion you have to sell it back. You could still have a total of 8 25% minions and you'd have no obligation to use all of them at once.
Can Higher % Minions downscale? I'm not sure if I'm understanding this question correctly. In total, the maximum amount of % minions you could obtain would equal 200%. This means 8 25%, 4 50%, 2 75% and a 50%, whatever. You can't change the PL percentage of individual minions after they are bought though, no. If you want them to go down in PL, to limit themselves, you could buy them the Ki Suppression technique at level 2 to obtain that capability - but they would still count as the relevant percentage for the total number of minions you could have.
Can Guards travel from planet to planet on their own and start up sagas? Firstly, I'd rule that NPCs can't start sagas at all - they have to be started by a PC.
With regards to the problem of guard spamming to slow down threads, I would say that all guards/npcs owned by a character would occupy the same slot in the post order as the owning character. It doesn't matter if you have 1 NPC or 200 in the thread, you post once and once only to cover all of your actions. This way, you cannot use them to draw out the post order.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2016 11:53:39 GMT
I'd like to suggest having a further difference between Guards and Minions, specifically what rewards the NPCs can accrue when RPing away from their main character.
I think Minions should be able to get Zeni or PL, as normal. Guards should be limited to Zeni. Guards can't get stronger, can't learn new things after creation. So why should they be able to magically make their PC stronger through PL gain when the PC isn't even with them?
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Queen Habana
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Post by Queen Habana on Feb 3, 2016 16:19:54 GMT
I'm with Nick on disliking limiting Minions to only being able to be alongside your main character, those side characters are the ones to make the most sense to leave 'home' to protect it while you are out protecting/plundering other worlds. A prime example would be Habana and Jala, if Habana had to leave Vegeta to go backup Mayze on Namek or to investigate something on Earth it would make FAR more sense for her to have Jala stay on Vegeta to act as her proxy, to keep training new recruits and keep things on Vegeta itself running smoothly.
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Post by Zuni on Feb 3, 2016 16:32:15 GMT
Yes, but that would also allow Habana to have much more influence on the game than she should.
Sorry, but I don't think anyone should get to a point where they can reliably contribute to more than one major area of the site at a time. Powerful characters already dominate many of the major story events on the site; they shouldn't be able to leave large chunks of their PL to keep acting on their behalf in other areas. The potential for abuse is too high, and it doesn't match the story function of a 'sidekick' or 'right hand person' which is what the PL percentage minions are designed to represent.
Guards guard. Minions and sidekicks have your back.
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Post by Paengi on Feb 3, 2016 16:46:48 GMT
I was hoping guards could be on different planets, but maybe here's a restriction. You cannot send guards to a different planet that you are not on, however you can leave them on a planet when you leave, and they can go to planets you are on. If this doesn't work, I guess I need some minions >_< if i ever leave namek i cant leave it defensless
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Post by Zuni on Feb 3, 2016 16:48:46 GMT
Under my system it works as follows:
Guards - with a fixed PL - can be left on a planet because their ability to (for instance) stop a Saga is extremely limited.
Minions - who can potentially become very significantly powerful - cannot.
Currently, as all purchased NPCs are technically items you keep with your character, they cannot be anywhere your character is not.
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Post by Paengi on Feb 3, 2016 16:51:41 GMT
I like where Zuni is going with it.
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Post by Raisu Hanamura on Feb 3, 2016 17:01:05 GMT
I also agree with Zuni. While it might make sense for a minion to stay behind for in-character reasons, I think that it is also important to realize the OOC kind of influence that was, and I would say it is too much influence. To use our most recent of Sagas as an example, if Zucceta had a 75% guard, that is a guard with a PL of roughly 200k. Couple that with the fact that that minion would also have access to a x10 trans, it suddenly becomes a very major force, higher than many players.If this hypothetical minion existed, it would not be out of the question for Zucceta to be a force in both the Tree of Might DE and the Namek DE, at the same time.
The kind of power that one could use to influence major events, without having to intercede with their actual character, is more power than a player should have, as Zuni said.
So, for the sake of the game aspects, I would say it would be best to limit the minions to being stuck with your character.
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