Zucceta
Administrator
PL: 379,083
Oozaru(x10) MSSj(x15) S.Ooz(x22) SSj2(25x)
Zeni: 2290
Tag: @admin
OOC Name: therevolution
Posts: 2,309
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Post by Zucceta on Oct 21, 2015 4:10:37 GMT
Recently, a problem has become readily apparent to me. Players are not, generally, awarded for meaningful plot participation or consistent characterisation more than they are encouraged to pump their word counts, forcing up repeated repetitive training threads from the pits of their souls just for the chance to remain 'relevant' to the site's story. I don't think this system is ultimately healthy to the happiness or quality of the site's writers and writing. It does not encourage creativity, it does not encourage conflict; instead it encourages endless variations upon the same formulaic training threads that swamp the 'threads to grade' every day, and that my poor staff team have to sift through. Some of the worst offenders for making these training threads are the strongest on the site and I can't really blame them for this, but I feel like this needs to change. I have, for weeks, been brainstorming alternatives - one was to simply do away with power levels altogether. Such a transition would probably require a site reboot, which isn't exactly fair, and it would also make combat and transformations difficult to explain within context. Such a system would be rife to abuse from the 'no-sellers' among you. I see you hiding over there in the bushes. How, then, could differing combat power be handled? Well, one idea seems recurringly popular with my friends when I bounce it off of them. Power Level Tierring Instead of having numbers to increase through training and multiply through transformation, a character's strength would be determined (loosely) by a (maximum) Tier number. These would range from something like 1 to 20. Tiers 1-5, I imagine, would be starting PL to just before the first major transformation, including within it starting transformations such as Oozaru, the Arcosian suppressive forms, etc. Tiers 6-10 would include those on the cusp of, within, and mastery the first level of unlockable forms, such as Super Saiyan and its variants. Tiers 11-13 would include the second level transformations, and Tiers 14-15 would include final forms. Now obviously this would be a MASSIVE overhaul, but we could also conveniently transfer current PL's and maximum transformed PL into this system. It'd also enable us to more easily allow higher tiers for new content if we should decide on adding stuff above and beyond the SSj3 mark, such as Godly ki. Here's the main difference between our current system and this system - rising in tier ranking would primarily be achieved by MILESTONES for PERSONAL and SITE plot.
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Post by Hyoza on Oct 21, 2015 4:12:50 GMT
yes
wait
no
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Zucceta
Administrator
PL: 379,083
Oozaru(x10) MSSj(x15) S.Ooz(x22) SSj2(25x)
Zeni: 2290
Tag: @admin
OOC Name: therevolution
Posts: 2,309
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Post by Zucceta on Oct 21, 2015 4:15:10 GMT
That is also my personal opinion, but the tier system would more easily allow for it is the point.
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Post by Aiami Lin on Oct 21, 2015 4:22:18 GMT
Neat. I kind of like this idea, since it seems like the goal is to promote roleplaying in group threads rather than push out solos. Here's the main difference between our current system and this system - rising in tier ranking would primarily be achieved by MILESTONES for PERSONAL and SITE plot. I know it's not hammered out yet but this is the part that seems the most vague to me. Any ideas on what defines these milestones?
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Post by Hyoza on Oct 21, 2015 4:25:01 GMT
Characters having consistent motivations that make sense, interacting well with other players instead of always being on a mission for self-aggrandisement. Just generally having their character be a positive aspect of the overall story, contributing to it rather than making it suck
Basically all the blatant wish-fulfillment vehicle/author self-insert characters are boned.
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Lord Fridge
Rising Soul
PL: 14,645; BF(x5):; TF(x10); Items: Scouter, Luxurious Spaceship, 2 Senzu; Zeni: 19
Tag: @lordfridge
Posts: 60
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Post by Lord Fridge on Oct 21, 2015 4:49:17 GMT
So it would do away with power level? Because one of the coolest things about the system is the power levels. It makes it feel more immersive in the dragonball z world. I do although think that having to do so many solos just to be relevant or strong enough for pretty much anything, is alot of work, for a roleplay. But i do want to keep power levels. Other than having to grind to stay strong, maybe a bigger group thread bonus? I just dont think power levels should be taken away. IMO.
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Zucceta
Administrator
PL: 379,083
Oozaru(x10) MSSj(x15) S.Ooz(x22) SSj2(25x)
Zeni: 2290
Tag: @admin
OOC Name: therevolution
Posts: 2,309
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Post by Zucceta on Oct 21, 2015 4:56:00 GMT
The tier system would still technically, ICly, have power-level; but I think its telling that Toriyama never liked what happened with power levels in his series, and dropped them during the Frieza saga (and parodied them just recently with RoF).
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Lord Fridge
Rising Soul
PL: 14,645; BF(x5):; TF(x10); Items: Scouter, Luxurious Spaceship, 2 Senzu; Zeni: 19
Tag: @lordfridge
Posts: 60
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Post by Lord Fridge on Oct 21, 2015 5:05:21 GMT
Hmmm. So the PL would only remain ICly and be taken off profiles? Also how would it work for battle. If i had a tier 15, and fought someone with tier 14, what would happen?
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Queen Habana
Moderator
Queen of the Evil Space Monkey People Special Item: GPW Universal Championship Belt
PL: 415,489
Dark Power(x4); M.SSj(x14); U.SSj(x18/12), SSJ2 (x27)
Zeni: 0
Tag: @habana
Posts: 1,374
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Post by Queen Habana on Oct 21, 2015 5:14:05 GMT
PL as a concept could be kept around giving each tier a rough outline for how much PL someone might have at that tier, Tier 1 being 1000-3000, if someone were to utilize a scouter they could get a specific number but normal energy sensing would simply give an impression you would know 'they are on my level'(same tier) 'a bit below my level'(you are above them by 1 tier) or 'i am weaker than they are'(you are below them by 1 tier) each of these being made more prominent by how sperate you are from the other person
Differences in tiers could translate easily into how east a battle will be Even Tiers would be an obviously equal battle, being 1 tier below an opponent would be a tough but winnable fight, two tiers below a very difficult battle with little chance of victory, three tiers a nigh impossible battle and so on.
This change in system also has interesting consequences for the Technique system, a lack of PL means a lack of % based attacks, this could mean a shift to a similar tiered system for techs with N1 being the equivilant of a tech -2 your tier perhaps or something else.
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Zucceta
Administrator
PL: 379,083
Oozaru(x10) MSSj(x15) S.Ooz(x22) SSj2(25x)
Zeni: 2290
Tag: @admin
OOC Name: therevolution
Posts: 2,309
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Post by Zucceta on Oct 21, 2015 5:16:24 GMT
I imagine the differences in tier scaling to be similar to how the 60 and 80% rules work currently. Lets say I'm a tier 11 Super Oozaru facing a Tier 12 Vi-Poi; the fight would be mechanically equal or with some IC advantage on Vi's part, but the fight is still winnable on Zucc's part. If Zucc was a tier 10, the fight would be harder, and a tier 9 would be most likely a losing battle. That's a rough idea of how it works in my head, and fights would be a lot more based on IC circumstance rather than power-levelled attacks or attack overcharging.
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Lord Fridge
Rising Soul
PL: 14,645; BF(x5):; TF(x10); Items: Scouter, Luxurious Spaceship, 2 Senzu; Zeni: 19
Tag: @lordfridge
Posts: 60
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Post by Lord Fridge on Oct 21, 2015 5:31:28 GMT
That might work. Also, how does the progression work in depth? Could you still train to get stronger or does it have to be just big events for your character?
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Vi-Poi
Administrator
Premier of Earth
PL: 434,410
Soul(x40P), Overdrive(x43)
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Post by Vi-Poi on Oct 21, 2015 5:33:29 GMT
I really like the idea of lessening the grind, and am in favor of a tier system. I'd like to see the opinions of some of the other high PL people as well, Reikiko & Natto? Another option could be to install the automation with looser WC rewards (paying out 500 WC the same as 1000 WC for example) and change training regularly only giving you a capped +x on your modifiers and not raw PL along with a WC cap per-post. But I also like the idea of a tier system. If we go this route, we should have a simple system that comes with canon examples of what each tier means, perhaps with some pictures. I'd also like to keep PLs, so a person can be at 90000 PL Tier 3 or w/e.
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Post by Defrosch on Oct 21, 2015 5:57:01 GMT
I'm digging the idea in general, but I also agree with Vi's suggestion here. PL could be kept as a more specific indication of strength or skill. Perhaps keep PL only for amount of tech's learned or something?
Say two tier 3 players go up against each other, but one is almost ready to break into tier 4, and has more tricks up their sleeve than the other, but the battle could still very much go either way.
Otherwise, going up in the tiers part would require a reasonable impact to be made storywise as stated previously, and if you don't match the requirement, you're stuck at a tier's top PL until you break it.
It could be interesting to see say, someone of Tier 11 go against Tier 13, and have it be a winnable fight for the tier 11 player, even with the low 'PL' that they have. Think of it like Gohan at SSJ1 vs Cell, before he reaches SSJ2, and is a better match, having rreached tier 12 in effective strength.
Though f PL is taken out entirely and we just go with Tiers, it'll make things far easier on custom titles thats for sure :P
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Oct 21, 2015 6:08:26 GMT
I'm for it, and would love to see how this personally would develop. With the current combat system revolving around Power Level and the thought of having to try and balance something out to fit the system without making a species race in a monster power house is getting really really difficult... Really difficult!
When the rough basic foundation of the system comes in, I'd like to get this explored, even be used as a testing guinea pig in the threads I partake in with any of the characters I'm using.
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Nicolas Mclendon
Moderator
The Hero of the Cosmos: CAPTAIN NOVA!
PL: 145,482
Intense Struggle (x3); X-Factor (x6); Amazing Captain Nova (x16)
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Tag: @nicolas
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Post by Nicolas Mclendon on Oct 21, 2015 6:34:37 GMT
There's a few things that would need to be overhauled with the tiering system, (some being easier than others) - How Techs are earned/how they'll work in general
- How zeni, shoki, and the respective items will be handled
- Sidekick/Guards and their tiering
- How transformations/race balance would work (This is probably the biggest one)
- How certain PL based racials would work
- How applying for a tier up would work
- How would we determine who is in what tier range currently?
Among other things, I'm interested in the idea but it aint gonna be an easy shift It's gonna be a lot of work.
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