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Post by Reikiko on Apr 8, 2015 17:32:45 GMT
I get what you mean Tao but...
OD + Calibration means that a android would (logically) only buy those upgrades before entering a saga. and yes, 3500~4000 for an x44 (what makes them almost equal to the second strongest race on terms of modifiers: Saiyan) that would last for a whole thread is almost nothing. That's at most 1 zeni thread alongside someone else to get that money, guaranteeing you're at your peak for the Saga/DE you plan to enter.
Or one could possibly argue the idea that Calibration can only be used once per form. This leaves them at x41 (still making them stronger than Arcosian and Demon on terms of modifiers) but would grant them also the ability to use their Calibration as a one-time something for their 'make it or break it' scenario.
The idea is good, but the price is way too cheap on that aspect. For the rest I do like the sound of an 'android shop'.
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Tao Lung
Rising Soul
PL: 1,671; Intense Struggle (x3): 5,013; Items: 1 use space pod, Heavy Weights (2521.5| 7564.5); Zeni: 2797
Tag: @sacidepatinete
Posts: 172
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Post by Tao Lung on Apr 8, 2015 19:39:16 GMT
Perhaps Calibration's price could be upped to 2.000. Honestly, I don't see much of a big deal with androids going up in the transformation tiers. They don't have any compensation for how slow progressing their transformations are (Vi-Poi posted very interesting graphics illustrating this in his Androids Redux thread) and end up in mid-low tiers. Regarding the Arcosians you mentioned, it is only fair that androids end up stronger than them. They don't have a major starter advantage such as said race. In fact they don't have advantages at all in the field of transformations. Another thing that remains hidden from the eyes is how being zeni dependant impacts Android's power growth. We do a pl or zeni game. So constantly diverting your attention to zeni to recalibrate your Overdrive or get the other upgrades you'll make sure to grab, will make you less competitive pl wise, which is in itself a disadvantage within the one advantage Androids will have. We can't look only at the end-game characters and their transformations, else, all modifiers would have to be equal. It's important to consider how the characters fare through the first tiers against others, which is the longest and hardest road during character development. As they are, it is only fair to me that they get good transformations, specially since it's not a freebie (you have to pay for all and each of them) unlike other races. And Overdrive is not a transformation, it's a special technique and one that gradually gets weaker and requires constant zeni threads to be kept optimal. I believe a x42 final transformation is fair enough for considering how nerfed andorids currently are and how tough the road ahead of them will be with all the money they will have to spend on upgrades, weights, ships, dogi... which will delay their growth in power.
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Vi-Poi
Administrator
Premier of Earth
PL: 434,410
Soul(x40P), Overdrive(x43)
Zeni: 1,247
Tag: @vipoi
Posts: 2,833
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Post by Vi-Poi on Apr 8, 2015 21:04:28 GMT
Calibration could always ascend in modifiers as the android ascends in tiers, like +x1 for 1st and 2nd tier, +2x for 3rd and 4th, +3x for last two. Alternatively, maybe it could not stack with OD? I did some digging, and found an interesting thread that kind of shows my suspicions on how Androids were once a strong starting race but got downed: wodsouls.freeforums.net/thread/1298/androidsNote the poll (that was closed) says to bring them back to x8 Overdrive modifier. A x8 would have made them "Feast or Famine" and to me provide a plausible basis for having such a high Zeni cost for using a x8 modifier rather a cost on the x3, which I feel harsh because Androids need to use the x3 OD to effectively compete with most species tierings. The thread was started by Kojima minutes after Pieter replied to the Android species sheet with the Overdrive -x1 Zeni cost mechanic. 9 days later the Android's species sheet was edited, presumably to reflect the change from x8 OD to a x3 OD. The weird thing is I can't find the preceding vote that triggered the changes of a x3 replacer or a Zeni cost, even in the graveyard. Did it get permanently deleted? Kojima seems to say something relating to androids got deleted during the thread, but I'm unsure if it was the poll deciding Overdrive be lowered and Zeni cost added or not. Maybe Pieter Wolfbane or President Bao could shed some quick light on what happened prior to that thread, vote-wise and whatnot? Having a history of how things were decided and what was decided will be very helpful in gauging how to move forward. I kind of feel after reading the old thread that if Androids had a better representative who wasn't so explosive in temperament they might not have gotten stuck with such an over-correction. I really love this idea, even from a lore standpoint. Android Shop? Android Lab? Android Workshop? I want it!
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Apr 8, 2015 23:00:08 GMT
*Sighs* I've not the idea that happened about that thread that got deleted. However, I did say that the Overdrive nerf was too much and was suggesting that the number be shifted up to x4-x6, instead, with the previous instigations of how the androids could still be effective, even late game against the top races, as each race should be having their own unique method of competing with each other. I do want to adjust the transformations, lore-wise, so that each has their own crazy story, like how I did with Demons, Humans, Saiyans, Bio-Androids, and Arcosians(?). A small tidbit story, or extensive story on one subject, and make it worth the read. -------------------- SWG EDIT: More recent and relevant thread on the matter wodsouls.freeforums.net/thread/2991/android-changes-shop
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