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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2016 10:19:41 GMT
The current system of small slaps to the wrist when harassment and toxicity are involved has bred a divide between (Players? People? RPers?) in the past and can allow for similar things to happen in the future. As someone new to this site, I will leave it in the hands of the staff to talk out specifics, but when it comes to Cbox issues, OOC IC restrictions should be applied. This is not a perfect example, but something to be moved in the correct stream of thought: "LoL clearly has harassed Noxa in a way deemed rule breaking within the confines of this role playing site. In addition to having a () hour(s)/Day(s) ban from the Cbox, LoL is also restricted to 2 topics with his character/ 2/4/6k Pl subtraction/ Some amount of Zeni lost/ several days ban from posting IC." These may seem harsh or even tame to the members of this site, but when faced with negatives more than just a few hours ban from the Cbox and having things happen IC, people may feel more encouraged to think about their words and choices when interacting with others. These "10%" bans seem to be a small recourse for a decent amount of actual harassment leading to potential for long term grudges and future interactions full of negativity. Maybe the site votes on a way of handling these things, maybe just the staff has an internal meeting about it, either way, as someone new that sees this kind of thing (no matter how isolated) could potentially be a turn off to the site. I'd be remiss if I didn't say that this site's mechanics and IC rules are great, and I've no problem with any of those. Just the thoughts of a guest like myself. I know that some might be upset that a new person is offering up these thoughts to a system that may not seem in need of change, and to that I'd like to say: please take what I say however you will. I do not want to tear down the site you love or will so fervently defend. I merely want to help make it better in any way I can, just like yourself. Above is — verbatim — the thoughts and concerns of one 'Lol'; a user who, despite being rough around the edges, showed up with some interesting points. They regarded the punishment system of WoD:Souls and how we handle toxicity.
Bellow are my thoughts: It's definitely interesting to see the suggestion for OOC punishments affecting IC characters. It would, in fact, be the ultimate deterrent, but it is nearing 'a line' of diving OOC and IC. A line that I'm unsure if I would cross, but I certainly feel should be examined.
I feel like the biggest red flag that 'Lol' has pointed out is the fact that there is a long history of players getting away with consistent abuse and toxicity. Names had been discussed on the Cbox and I don't feel like the need to be brought up again.
Personally, I feel like there is nothing stopping someone from abusing the system; taking a break; returning with 'I have changed' once their % lowers, and returning to the same old cycle. I feel like the system is too lenient and deserves to be looked at.
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Zucceta
Administrator
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Post by Zucceta on Oct 5, 2016 11:22:22 GMT
In no shape or form do I believe that the system is too lenient, and repeat offenders of the same rules do get increasing punishments (E.G. Core, whom, despite "letting the warnings run down" managed to get himself perma-banned for just consistent rudeness).
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lol
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Post by lol on Oct 5, 2016 11:44:21 GMT
Figured I should just make an account to reply. I understand that Core was banned, but it was only an eventuality, and it was still many months of "changed behavior" followed by the same toxic nature (or somewhat similar, I haven't heard about it all) which just spawned another % increase until the many warnings finally gave way to a perma ban. In my opinion, he should have been banned a lot time ago and perhaps then some others here wouldn't have the warnings they do or the grudges that they have. Potential new members could and may have been lost because Core was allowed to remain and be toxic, and something like that would be a lot harder to do with a tweaked system.
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Zucceta
Administrator
PL: 379,083
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Post by Zucceta on Oct 5, 2016 11:49:12 GMT
In my opinion, he should have been banned a lot time ago and perhaps then some others here wouldn't have the warnings they do or the grudges that they have. Potential new members could and may have been lost because Core was allowed to remain and be toxic, and something like that would be a lot harder to do with a tweaked system. I would suggest, then, that we make the choice to differ here. Many RP forums suffer from fascistic staff members who throw around permanent bans for even the most minor of infractions. I'd rather we stick to a (slightly more) lenient system that allows for reform but punishes repeat offenders. I would also suggest that, currently, new members are not the hugest priority for the site (not that fresh blood is ever a bad thing, *ambient vampire noises*).
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lol
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Post by lol on Oct 5, 2016 12:00:44 GMT
Interesting. My suggestions were made so that it wouldn't make this site like others in the tyrannical bans, but so that their were real repercussions other than a small leave from a smaller aspect of the site. Not necessarily perma bans, but essentially privileges taken.
And to your opinion of new members not being a big priority, I find that interesting.
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Post by Fleece on Oct 5, 2016 16:24:04 GMT
Overall, i'd say the warning system works. Only thing I would do differently is increase the cbox ban times by a lot. Most of the unpleasantness around here is from folks who stink up the chat with their nerd rage. I would day ban grade beggars, and week ban people causing a stink in the cbox every time. You ever seen one of them couples who argue in line at the grocery store? Take it to pm. To be honest, if you have multiple c-box offenses, I really want to see the privilege to live chat taken away eventually. (I am also not targeting anyone in specefic with this message so please take no offense). Like after so long, I think there comes a time where you prove you can't be mature enough to handle a live chat.
But anyways, the system works more or less pretty well. The majority of players do not repeat offenses. Only about 1/3 of the population of people who get warnings are repeatedly causing issues, and this is a relatively small portion of the site. Most are pretty decent folk who just take this shit a bit to serious...
Repeat Offenders 8
1 warning: 25
Banned for misconduct: 3
Banned for player scalping/stealing from site/etc: 5
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Vi-Poi
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Post by Vi-Poi on Oct 6, 2016 5:35:37 GMT
We're probably on the more lenient side than a lot of RP sites -- there are some real tyrants out there that will ban players on whims -- but I'd say that's an operational strength of ours. Probably our largest red tape area for staff is enforcing the rules. There are hoops to jump through, violations that trigger firm demerits, evidence that must be presented, and the matters of fact can be disputed on appeal. Players can also initiate grievances to be reviewed.
There can be some player toxicity, like any big RP site, but I think our gentler hand precludes the possibility of there ever being toxic staff who stomp all over people for silly or personal reasons, which can be pretty common on other RP sites. A toxic player might do some harm, but abusive staff can absolutely destroy a site.
So there is a balance to strike between rules enforcement and potential for abuse, and I think we're in a good spot there.
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