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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 4:20:48 GMT
Personally, I'd like to see power levels stay. It's honestly a very simple method and DBZ did base a lot off of power levels. I do understand that it resembled something in the early series and was tossed out but seeing them go out wouldn't be good. (In my opinion anyway)
I understand there is an issue that needs to be resolved, but overhauling the whole thing seems pretty far fetched to me. From my understanding the main problem isn't necessarily with the PLPW system, it's with those who try to exploit it.
It's quite obvious to see that some push for X number of words and end up with something that's unbearable to read. While others can pop out X simply and keep it entertaining and good.
Excuse me if I'm repeating something somebody else mentioned, I didn't read through all five pages. Just giving in my thoughts.
PL is a simple, easy system. It's been used on countless DBZ Rps along with the PLPW grading. Could make multiple brackets of grading.
Plot related - Training - Solo - or..
Back on LDR we did see the threads that were just repetitive wordings, Therefore we implemented a solid base for WC grading.
Example.
1-1,000 words = x PL reward. 1,001 - 1,999 words = x PL reward. 2,000 - 2,999 words = x PL reward.
This did help with people pushing to hit a word count just for PL as WC became less important. Of course, along with this we did implement bonus' for plot relevance and character development. In that set up I found more of my members aiming for plot and development rather than POWAAA..
We found it was quite fair too, as all effort regarding word count was kept even. If we had X member write 1,000 words and you could tell it was just a mash-up of crap for power he'd get reward X. And another X member wrote 1,000 words but it was plot related and character development, he'd gain X (Same as above guy) + X% Bonus.
Food for thought.
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Zod
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Post by Zod on Nov 3, 2015 5:00:33 GMT
... right now, a lot of what the mods and admins are trying to achieve is cutting down the amount of work that they have to do in order to speed up the grading processes for not only PL but also for characters, maneuvers, etc.
However, you're really overcomplicating it by trying to simplify it into a tiering system. With your current system, all you need to do is make the equation easier for mods and even just 1 mod (yeah, with your current limitations just 1 mod could do it) could keep up with the grading. Instead of making an automated system to put PL next to someones name... make a calculator that you can just plug in word count and a quality modifier of 1-10 and you'll very quickly see what you are looking to see without throwing a bunch of shit at a wall and trying to see which one sticks. Basically:
if someone has something with 2k words and the quality modifier was a direct multiplication? a craptacular fluffed up piece of garbage would probably only get a 3 in quality, making the 2k words equal 6k words in PL. But 1k words, half the size, with excellent quality would give you probably about an 8 modifier, making it 8k words in PL, a 2k difference for half the amount of writing! The great thing about this is that as the word count goes up the PL difference goes up too! 4k x 3 = 12k; 2k x 8 = 16k, a 4k difference! Of course, you guys have a lot of extras in there but if you just give the grader the necessity to ONLY insert word count and quality mod you'll quickly see the rise in work people put into quality instead of just quantity and a steep increase in the speed it takes for grading work.
Tiers... why use tiers? complicated systems like that make things too difficult; it's like an MMO opporating on 5 levels yet having as much content as WoW. You guys even spent the time to upgrade your battling system to all high heaven. You have too many other things on your pallet than integrating a complex system that, even if it does get added in, will only increase immediate work load and not make things any different than they were at the beginning x.O;
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Post by Articho Reville on Nov 3, 2015 5:13:33 GMT
The reason for multiple mods grading is for fairness. Some mods might play favorites and more than one opinion prevents this.
Other than that, first off: You don't know the grading formula. You're just spewing a solution that might not fit the mold. Secondly, for the calculator idea, how would you program it to grade quality? A lot of checkers and stuff like that aren't that smart. Again, just spewing a solution that might not even work or be possible. If you can provide an example, by all means do so.
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Zod
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Post by Zod on Nov 3, 2015 5:36:39 GMT
that's not the first time someone's said that x.x might as well answer
A mod or admin who plays favorites shouldn't be a mod or admin unless they are one HELL of a work horse. If more than one mod is needed for grading the same piece? one of them could be working on finishing the issues with the demon race or helping out Vi-Poi with the new board, checking over profiles, looking over the technique listings, and even posting!
This is true, I do not know the direct grading formula. However, I never did specify the actual grading formula *gasp* I only said that if you made quality into a 1-10 modifier it would make people work harder at RPing. Checkers not being that smart? Isn't that a direct insult towards not only the checkers but also the people who elected them? better check on that. As for the modifier!
The quality modifier, itself, would be 1-10, something extremely simple. The word count modifier would be, of course, the word count! another thing that is easy to find out. The question then becomes how to plug this into the already existing formula!? Have you ever tried to figure out KM to Miles and ended up using google's calculator? The same thing can be done with adding in 1 additional variable. The tech head of the board should be able to do it relatively simply considering the trial runs of using the current formula to automatically change the signature PLs and Zenni directly after an upgrade (something that'd require much more difficult coding skills)
Again, I'm not the one doing the spewing. I literally just gave you the perfect solution to your problem without even needing to spend 3 months trying to figure out if it would work or not x.x; It could be implimented immediately if necessary and 3 mods would be able to do all the catch up work in just a few hours! Of course, you DID bring up a great point. People who are doing the writing grading should be a hand selected and agreed upon group of elite writers. However, it should have been that way in the first place. I wouldn't want someone who can barely fluff a few thousand words to be grading anything I ever wrote on the board. Getting automatic 10s for something even I would admit should only get an 8 for would just feel like getting kicked in the nuts every time one of my works were graded.
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Post by Tania on Nov 3, 2015 5:49:30 GMT
The problem is that someone is always going to have a bit of bias when looking over things, whether they realize it or not. We aren't 'workhorses'. We're people. We don't get paid. We don't get any benefits. We're just here to make sure people enjoy themselves and that things run as smoothly as they can. You seem to be confused about why we're trying to implement a new system in the first place. Unlike what you seem to think, we're not doing it to cut down on work. It's about making sure word-padded posts and people that grind out solos like there's no tomorrow don't make massive leaps in PL while everyone else is left in the dust. We're trying to switch over to a system where 'quality' is the main focus. We want our player's main concern to be story telling, not about how many words they can churn out because they're worried about staying relevant. If that means more work for the mods, then that means more work for the mods. As I said before, we're all humans. Humans adapt. Which is exactly what we plan on doing with getting all of the kinks worked out of how the system works. I literally just gave you the perfect solution to your problem without even needing to spend 3 months trying to figure out if it would work or not x.x; I'm not sure what you're intended tone was here, but frankly it comes off as arrogant in my opinion. I'm not sure if you ever saw my reply to the PM that I sent you as you didn't bother responding to it, but I would like to bring up a point that I brought up there. Please keep in mind that just because you think your solution is the right way to go, it doesn't make it 'perfect'. It just makes you sound arrogant, which doesn't paint the best picture of someone to the community they're trying to pitch their ideas to. Everyone has a voice. Not just you.
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Post by Hyoza on Nov 3, 2015 21:24:37 GMT
Half the people in this thread don't even know what they're talking about and it's painfully obvious from how hilariously fallacious their arguments are.
Perhaps it is telling that most of these people are arguing against the change.
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Post by Ninjin Nedrag on Nov 3, 2015 22:02:23 GMT
If things are so fallacious there Hyoza then enlighten us and explain where everyone is going off track. Honestly I want to know your opinions on everything so that we can be enlightened as you are.
I personally do not care which system we have as I am going to rp as I have and just keep at it. So this change will have little effect on me and on how I roleplay myself or my characters.
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Post by Etoru on Nov 3, 2015 22:39:17 GMT
Personally I don't know a lot about the system or how it's going to work and I don't care what we choose but I just like the feel of someone using a scouter and sensing your power level. Or when you just say "I'm using 10% of my power" yada yada. Can you do that with tiers or?
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Zod
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Post by Zod on Nov 3, 2015 23:53:24 GMT
partially Etoru, the beginning system (without looking through the other 5 pages to see if it was ever updated) is a way to keep track of when someone is accessable to transformations and upgrades. Every time you hit a personal or story milestone (they never said how it would be identified) you go up in tier. Depending on your race, you gain the ability to obtain your next transformation at that tier. This doesn't mean that PL would be completely taken out of the equation, only that how fast you can blitz through your storylines and saga events would be the determining factor for a range of things, transformations being the one they named.
Because of the current format, everyone would probably be losing transformations with the tier system, as PL would no longer be the indicator. Instead it would depend on how far you are along in your storyline. On one hand, your transformations, which are the biggest boosts to your PL that you can get, would take more creative writing work to get to than just tossing out huge worded training sessions. On the other hand, simple edits to the current system would fix the issues that the huge overhaul in the tiering system would require. Should we dive into unexplored territory for an end all be all? Or should we stick to what we already have and simply give it a tune up?
IMO, I don't see it being very realistic UNLESS it was implimented on the new board that is currently in progress. Since that will probably take a few more months of debugging and fixing as everything is given a fresh look, I suggested we simply go with an EASY fix that with just a little effort could turn the rough gem of the current system into a well fashioned diamond.
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Post by Articho Reville on Nov 4, 2015 0:11:08 GMT
And what easy fix would there be? Lowering gains for solos? Increasing gains for group threads? That doesn't really solve or even mitigate the problem. People will still crank out solos like nobody's business and they'll get much stronger than everyone else at a somewhat slower rate. Group threads still take a long time to be completed and graded, sometimes weeks, which gives the soloers tons of time to crank out a lot of solos. There isn't an easy fix to the system, because it will remain just as abusable as before.
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Zod
Newcomer
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Posts: 44
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Post by Zod on Nov 4, 2015 0:17:05 GMT
... right now, a lot of what the mods and admins are trying to achieve is cutting down the amount of work that they have to do in order to speed up the grading processes for not only PL but also for characters, maneuvers, etc. However, you're really overcomplicating it by trying to simplify it into a tiering system. With your current system, all you need to do is make the equation easier for mods and even just 1 mod (yeah, with your current limitations just 1 mod could do it) could keep up with the grading. Instead of making an automated system to put PL next to someones name... make a calculator that you can just plug in word count and a quality modifier of 1-10 and you'll very quickly see what you are looking to see without throwing a bunch of shit at a wall and trying to see which one sticks. Basically: if someone has something with 2k words and the quality modifier was a direct multiplication? a craptacular fluffed up piece of garbage would probably only get a 3 in quality, making the 2k words equal 6k words in PL. But 1k words, half the size, with excellent quality would give you probably about an 8 modifier, making it 8k words in PL, a 2k difference for half the amount of writing! The great thing about this is that as the word count goes up the PL difference goes up too! 4k x 3 = 12k; 2k x 8 = 16k, a 4k difference! Of course, you guys have a lot of extras in there but if you just give the grader the necessity to ONLY insert word count and quality mod you'll quickly see the rise in work people put into quality instead of just quantity and a steep increase in the speed it takes for grading work. Tiers... why use tiers? complicated systems like that make things too difficult; it's like an MMO opporating on 5 levels yet having as much content as WoW. You guys even spent the time to upgrade your battling system to all high heaven. You have too many other things on your pallet than integrating a complex system that, even if it does get added in, will only increase immediate work load and not make things any different than they were at the beginning x.O; read it all please. btw, group players can be writing soloes while the group RP is going on. This allows them to get a group RP boost and an immediate solo boost afterwards. Powergamers have always realized this
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Post by Articho Reville on Nov 4, 2015 0:29:48 GMT
You know that saying write solos while in group threads still doesn't solve the problem. The problem is that people throw out solos that are basically all the same thing and don't progress the story and players that don't have the time to just sit down and write 5k+ words a week in solos, yet contribute to the site, are left in the dust.
Trying to add something to a formula you don't know is like trying to do a puzzle blindfolded. You will try to put pieces that don't fit together together. Trying to change the formula at all by implementing any sort of scale without knowledge of how it works is a recipe for disaster.
What you're failing to see is that you're assuming that your idea will just work. You're assuming that your scales and modifiers will just fit into the formula. You're assuming you know how the grading process actually works.
As Tania has stated multiple times, this isn't about the amount of work. This is about balancing the game. You're still throwing a solution you claim is perfect without even realizing that you are addressing a nonexistent problem.
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Post by Treylech on Nov 4, 2015 1:20:18 GMT
Why not limit the amount of solo posts while decreasing the gain to try and encourage group roleplays?
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Zucceta
Administrator
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Post by Zucceta on Nov 4, 2015 3:07:08 GMT
The problem isn't even about solos vs group roleplay. Solos can be very great pieces of prose, with some significance regarding the movement of plot on a larger scale in regards to internal character motivation and how that is externalised in personal reactions to other players as a motive.
And then a lot of solos are just repetitive, 'training' filler. I have nothing against this beyond personal boredom, but it shouldn't be a primary method to strength.
A lot of group roleplays don't really serve much purpose, and while that is all well and good, these threads should not be rewarded on as great a scale as something with ramifications.
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Post by Treylech on Nov 4, 2015 5:42:51 GMT
Alright. We could make the training "filler" less effective as a power level boost based on the character's prior solo training threads. As the character gets stronger overall, their power becomes harder to level by normal means. Meanwhile, self discovery awakens more latent abilities. On top of that, we could put a price on solo training to give people more of a reason to think a little more cautiously before attempting to post in bulk.
I'm not saying make it expensive, but a price tag could deter people from dropping all but pointless posts. Just a thought. Don't know if it will solve the problem, but it's likely to help until a better solution is found.
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