Zod
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Post by Zod on Sept 27, 2015 6:29:10 GMT
Now before the splurg of "no"s  I would like everyone to actually read the ENTIRE thing and not just think it's me trying to cross hatch other anime into a DBZ based roleplay. I actually took some time to think about it and found several ways to include the elemental tree diagram into the use of Ki. The one problem that I came up with? Elemental powers, regardless, would only be at about 1/5th that of ki. For example, if a normal ball of ki hit a normal fireball, the normal ball of ki would be 5x stronger. Why? Because the center belief of all elemental diagrams is a pentagram with life, spirit, or balance in the center. So, no matter what elemental diagram you incorporate, it would be vastly inferior to pure ki usage. The only actual advantage it would give you is variety, both in characters and abilities. However, allow me to say that my idea is NOT allowing any and everyone to use elemental based attacks; this isn't hogwarts, avatar, x-men, or the new generation of naruto. The ability to control an element would be limited to a SINGLE race. On top of this, the elements they have to choose from are concrete and cannot be changed after they have chosen their path. basically:
With new planets being interacted with on almost a daily basis now that flight from galaxy to galaxy has become possible, stumbling upon a race with elemental affinity wouldn't be that rare. Just on earth there are several creatures who can shock those who come to close, fly through the air, burrow through the earth, and live in any extreme temperature we have ever found. Even in places where over 200 tons of pressure is pushing in on you from all sides, life finds a way to adapt and continue to live on.
Now, my true reasoning for bringing up the elemental topic even though it is strictly forbidden x.O; (see? I even know it is ) is the ever de-evolving pattern of characters and repetitive plot. Lets be honest, even Bing mentioned that just about every character and move is based on something else we've seen with a little extra flavor. The plots taking place will always be a repetition of the same sort of things that have happened in DBZ with a little extra salt and pepper to add some spice. After all, a sucessful series of any medium will continue until the creator is out of ideas. I'm not saying that sticking strictly to ki, reproducing the same types of characters over and over, and following the plots of our predecessors is wrong; the definition of cliche is something that is so good it can be used over and over again, yet still be good. I just thought it would be nice to roll the dice at getting a more creative atmosphere going. I believe the introduction of an elementally based race will give a fresh feel without completely killing the fact that this board is based on Dragon Ball and not a multi-verse.
Considering that none of this would probably even be considered without evidence, using a human with ki I can think of about 8 or so different personalities, histories, and playstyles that are completely unique to each other. Using a single elemental ability, such as fire, I can think of 5 that are completely different from each other and closer to 16 if I disregard the board's mythology (can't do that so we'll just say 5) Including that the basic elements I'd want to include would be fire, water, earth, air, and lighting/electricity, that's an average of 25 completely different character paths from the original 8 when going with only ki use. A lot more variety eh? For plots, you have an immediate one of 5 different elemental users coming to earth, bam. Then you have fanatics of whichever element, restoring drained planets using the elements, etc.
I already know that some people are going to say that with elemental powers added to the board, a lot of abilities are going to be abused... consider that with less than a million PL (much lower than certain members of the board), Frieza was able to blow up planet namek like popping a balloon with a needle. Now consider that the force required to cause a significant enough of a fissure to actually harm the earth is equal to 100k nuclear explosions at once... and a fire elementalist at max teir would barely be able to equate to 1 of those nuclear explosions.
This should be enough information to start a discussion. I'd like to know what you all think about the singular race, singular element idea and how well it would mesh. I, personally, think that with the proper limitations placed on the race, as a whole, it would only bring benefit to the board.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2015 7:15:16 GMT
As a Species? No. As a Class of the Human Race similar to the Warrior Clan and Dragon Clan is to the Namekian Race? Sure.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2015 18:43:38 GMT
No. Kidding, Zod!
Honestly speaking, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to create a race whose concept revolves around elementalists with control over the spoecific elements of the nature. As a personal preference, if such a race was to be made, I would like to see an elaborate background to the species and home planet, spiced with clever puns for the names, planet and species (I can already suggest for that something along the lines of names based off their core element and perhaps Erem-jins for the species?).
Issues I see regarding the information you provided is the 1/5 power for non-pure ki balls. That is uneeded, gimping and umbalanced. Better than sacrificing 4/5 of a techs power over specific effects and advantages (which I believe it is the advantage you conceived for such types of characters, based of what you said) is sacrificing 1/3 of the full power, something you can already do with how the system is currently set up. As you know, the technique system works in 3 tiers each representing (in a simple-mind way of speaking) 1/3 of the total power (N1=33%/UP2=66%/MP3 = 100%). By "sacrificing" an increment of 1/3 in power, you are able to add a variant effect for it, meaning this effect could mimic the characteristic of a certain element: burning for fire, freezing for ice, etc... So it would be better if when elaborating the racial characteristics of your species you provided players a choice between simple free effects tied to their ellement of choice, while converting their basic ki aspect to that of the element. I.E:
Fire: Converts ki into fire. Attacks burn, damaging the target a bit next turn after they'e hit... or perhaps they case a bit of aftershock damage even if blocked due to heat.
Ice: Converts ki into ice. May freeze the opponent encasing them in a "prison" whose power is equal to that of your technique and requires that same exertion of power to break free.
Electricity: Converts ki into electricity. Can cause the target to lose their next action if they are weaker than your attack.
Things like that. Perhaps as a second unique trait you could have it so the character may control their element as long as the thing they are trying to control isn't stronger than themselves (i.e: redirecting a fireball shot towards a fire-controlling character).
The concept of pentagram of elements you introduced. That's not an actual philosophy in Dragonball, so that would be something your species would believe alone and not an intrinsic element (no pun intended) of the game's lore or mechanics.
As for using the elemental control for huge effects such as popping a place like a baloon, the technique used would just have to follow the proper common sense we use when determining whether a character is strong enough to destroy a planet or any length of terrain.
In general, I think you can create your elementalist species should you wish so. My suggestion and personal preference: lore-wise mainly, try to "dragonballify" them as much as you can.
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Nicolas Mclendon
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Post by Nicolas Mclendon on Sept 28, 2015 8:02:22 GMT
Now before the splurg of "no"s I would like everyone to actually read the ENTIRE thing and not just think it's me trying to cross hatch other anime into a DBZ based roleplay. I actually took some time to think about it and found several ways to include the elemental tree diagram into the use of Ki. Howdy Zod! Lemme just start right off the bat and state that as it stands currently we have multiple characters of varying species who incorporate Magic/Elemental Magic based techniques. Magic is an abundant thing in Dragon World as we've seen in the anime as well as the games and other forms of media. We treat it primarily as 'flavoring' for attacks while keeping in tune with the designated fighting system. For the most part it's an aesthetic choice utilized for people seeking to make their character have more of a mystical background. This Ki vs Element Chart doesn't align with what we've seen in the show. Pikkon's fire, Eis Shenron's frost, or Roshi's Electrical Discharge have all been seen to be effective against ki users as much or sometimes more so than ki itself. As I mentioned earlier for the most part it's just flavor. We do, however, have a system in place that suits what you're suggesting. In the move set ups one can opt to learn Variant moves or Specials that have extra effects. In the case of variant move's it's at the cost of some power. The strongest you can get is 66% damage and it costs the same amount of energy to use as a level 3 tech or a Special move. So you can have a fire bolt that has some lingering damage or a frost/electricity move that also stuns it's victims. This is all well and good except for the part that only this race would have that ability since as I've stated numerous different people from the show and the RP have already shown the ability to utilize elemental magic. Bio Androids, Aliens, Demons and humans have been shown to utilize magic and elemental magic freely I wanna stress that. I've got a few ideas that I'd like to suggest in helping you build this race. If you go to our race templates you can see that you can come up with unique characteristics for your race Here's what I would like to suggest you can use as a few characteristics
Elemental Mastery: Race Name, due to their strong connection to magic, have become devoted masters to the natural elements. Each of their people are drawn to a specific element and do not stray from it. As such their knowledge and understanding of that element allows them to utilize some of it's full potential early on. (Race Name Starts with a free [UV3] Tech based on an element of their choosing. They may only utilize this element for all future attacks.) Elemental Reliance: Race name has very limited control of their ki and unfortunately cannot project it like most fighters in the universe. They must focus all projection based attacks through the elements and their lack of ki control and reliance on magic makes it harder for them to formulate techniques. (All projection based attacks must use elemental flavoring. All techniques are learned at every 7,000 PL )
Hybrids could start with an extra technique slot like Demon hybrids have currently and no restriction on their moveset. This proposal could work with what you're suggesting while keeping in line with the system that is in place. I think starting with a level 3 Variant Tech and the limitations balance out making what could be an interesting/cool race that could be fun to play but also doesn't invalidate other people's characters or the canon. |
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Zod
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Post by Zod on Sept 28, 2015 22:46:37 GMT
(so I don't forget, your signature dances very well to "Walk this Way" by Aerosmith, it's about a beat off of "Dream On" unfortunately)
Very good information, Nic. Considering that I was listening to several mods say that they would not approve characters that used elemental techniques, it's nice to know that other people are aware that abilities besides ki were used in the show.
Now, I just had a seizure last night so I'm a little hazy on just about everything... but I'll try to put together something coheirent.
I mentioned the 1/5th power in a speculative fiction manner. It's difficult to impliment it correctly because ki is already all elements combined into one... giving up the ultimate DBZ power source that is now easily untappable to focus on an inferior one doesn't really make much sense from anyones perspective. It was actually me saying "even if elemental abilities were included, they would have to somehow be modified"
I was thinking I could just to varients, but I received information from a staff member that may have been missinformed or didn't know exactly what I was thinking of who stated "We do not allow elemental abilities. This is not avatar" Funny enough, I heard that from several staffers x.x;
With your information added on to what I already knew, I would have to reject your combination of a UV3 but have it cost more PL. Elements, especially the 5 base ones, are powerful because of their variation. Just 1 element can have more options than all of ki put together. For example? Controlling water is actually controlling the flow of liquid that is no inhabited by the other 4 elements. Because of this, you can control water as solid ice and hot steam just as well as you could control it in its base form. So every ice maneuver you've ever thought up of mixed with your fog and desception maneuvers, blood weapons, etc... THEN go into every other TV show that has pure elemental based water abilities and add it on top of that x.x; So, if anything, the race I wanted to make, I'd prefer to have Elemental Reliance cut off their ability to use ki but make it easier to use elemental abilities, cost would be reduced not increased. Elemental Mastery would simply mean they could have elemental abilities as the N1 instead of having to wait for a varient. You also have to remember the downers with the race. 1) they could not use ki based techniques, that includes maneuvers like kaioken and flight. 2) since they can only use 1 element, they are also drastically weak to the opposite... a beginner in fire use could be doused with a bucket of water and not be able to use their maneuvers, hitting water with lightning sends a huge jolt of electricity through it, earth can completely neutralize lightning, wind can freely change form, making it impossible for earth to damage it, and fire only burns brighter under the influence of wind. People who know how to control the elements IRL can easily neutralize a pure user. The fact that they are so easy to neutralize made me want to create a character that could open demensional spaces and jump through them or grab things out of them (think portal) but everything would have to be cosmetic which really hurts.
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Post by Maeve Rakshasa on Sept 29, 2015 5:25:22 GMT
You wouldn't be able to have level 1 variant abilities that goes against the battle system that is laid out. The faster move unlock with a weakness system could potentially be viable. I'd say (using the required template) come up with a WIP version of your race and post it here so we can have an accurate idea of what you're thinking.
-Nicolas
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Zod
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Post by Zod on Sept 29, 2015 15:55:52 GMT
I was actually thinking of 2 different ways to spin this but the one I was most interested in actually involved in your regular humans being changed into elementalists instead of ki driven spirits.
Basically, there are 5 elements, so 5 beings that see the human species like vessals. When a human is "blessed" by one of these beings, they are filled by them, drastically changing their spirit base to an elemental one. The being then caps off the vessal, disallowing the other elements, including ki, to be absorbed by the human. For transformations, I was really going to follow the human species with 2 differences: the second to last one would have both its requirements and multiplier increased, and the last one would actually make them turn into an elemental spirit, thus ending the character's life "as the taboo arts should." These new spirits can then act like an extention of the original 5, filling more vessals that are destined to return their elemental arts with a vastly superior strength.
Of course, that one would probably be a little difficult to "dragonballify" but the spirits are suppose to be similar to the grand kai, or probably closer to the grand kai's rival.
The other was literally making a race that devoted themselves to elemental use and studies. As I noted above, they'd have an elemental affinity that made it easier to learn maneuvers of that perticular element, but not of ki (nor would they be interested in it). Of course I'd have them with ample weaknesses along with one that drives them away from ki use.
On the other hand, however, your information about elemental abilities as well as some additional information from someone who is currently focused in elementals really does shake things up. There is no problem in having a character who only learns elemental abilities, even at an N1 level, which means there is no point to a race that specializes in it since you can already specialize in it as every and any race.
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Post by Kaula on Sept 29, 2015 18:34:03 GMT
I'm not going to read through this all the way.
Pretty much if you want to be a human with elemental techs, be a human with elemental techs.
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Zucceta
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Post by Zucceta on Sept 30, 2015 2:42:03 GMT
Outside of my main annoyances at trying to have something element-centric in a spiritual, ki-context, my secondary worry is that there's a bunch of untapped potential for new races that actually exist in DBZ and its related fictions (even GT). I'd quite like to see some of these developed first before we get more... completely OC races.
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I would like everyone to actually read the ENTIRE thing and not just think it's me trying to cross hatch other anime into a DBZ based roleplay. I actually took some time to think about it and found several ways to include the elemental tree diagram into the use of Ki. The one problem that I came up with? Elemental powers, regardless, would only be at about 1/5th that of ki. For example, if a normal ball of ki hit a normal fireball, the normal ball of ki would be 5x stronger. Why? Because the center belief of all elemental diagrams is a pentagram with life, spirit, or balance in the center. So, no matter what elemental diagram you incorporate, it would be vastly inferior to pure ki usage. The only actual advantage it would give you is variety, both in characters and abilities. However, allow me to say that my idea is NOT allowing any and everyone to use elemental based attacks; this isn't hogwarts, avatar, x-men, or the new generation of naruto. The ability to control an element would be limited to a SINGLE race. On top of this, the elements they have to choose from are concrete and cannot be changed after they have chosen their path. basically:
