|
Post by President Bao on May 29, 2015 14:01:15 GMT
It's come to my attention that a fusion has taken place. Reikiko having un-pooted good Rei.
Problem is no mechanics have been expressly clarified currently for this situation. So, it's time to discuss. In the show, characters were shown to be able to split.
Currently we have a system where you must learn the fission technique, and split in one of these two ways: > Half and half pl > 20,000 and remainder pl
the first is more traditional, while the latter is much like our reincarnation mechnics where you can carry over 20,000pl from your old char to your new one. (more suited to making a support char of the splittee)
In the show however, 'unfission' was not so simple.
> When kami and piccolo merged, it wasn't due to their fission but rather through the namekian fusion technique we'd seen before (keeping him still as piccolo but increasing his strength and knowledge). > When buu merged, it was by using the Majin ability of absorption to absorb his good half. (eventually even spitting back out this other buu, as they remained distinct beings even after the merger)
---- Reikiko, currently this most directly effects you, but will also effect all, so let us begin this discussion and decide on how such things should be handled.
|
|
|
Post by Reikiko on May 29, 2015 15:41:56 GMT
A brief explanation on my part:
As people initially know I did the splitting/fission for two reasons. The first was in order to make a tea-party character, and the other reason was to advance my plot a little. It was always meant to be that they would fusion later on in the story, but certain things had made me uncomfortable and decide to carry out the fusion earlier than anticipated.
Now on terms of the fusion itself, Reikiko has never earned any additional PL aside from the 20k she inherited from Yami no Reikiko, and therefore I received permission to receive her PL back, and since the buildings on Avalon belonged to Reikiko, and the fusion has both persons in one personality has made most staff not mind the idea of transferring the belongings to Yami no Reikiko.
Now on the reason why I'm doing a race change request. One part of the reason is because as people might suspect, I'm tired of all this drama that bio-androids their absorb methods cause. We are opportunists in nature, and due to our modifiers are pretty much required to go after people in 'scumbag' methods. We aren't honorable thieves, we are vultures who go for the best prey (that we believe we can obtain without our abilities) in the easiest method.
This is twice already that my absorb attempt has led to me being the source of drama, being painted as the site's bully who for some uncomprehending reason would abuse their power to make life uncomfortable for everyone else around. Have I, even once tried to unprovoked kill someone outside of my absorb moments? Not to my knowledge, and the only time Reikiko used her power as a threat was in order to advance a plot and give a potential rival to someone to overcome.
To be honest? I have had enough of this. Bio-androids are a fun and interesting species, but the PL gain from their absorbs is truly not worth all the drama, and I sure as hell hope that the other bio-androids or Majins out there won't be forced to deal with the same situation, because it's something that kills muses and obliterates motivation. For the victim of an absorb it's a period in the afterlife, where they might even learn new techs or find a way to get their story to take a new turn. But for the bio-android, in this case me it's a vast PL gain, at the cost of creating enough drama that makes people want to leave.
It's for that reason that I started to look at an IC/story-perspective on how I could change Reikiko, and a certain idea popped up that would have led to a race change. Before people start to panic. The race change would only happen IF Reikiko loses the 41k PL she gained from the Athren absorb, and as you can see my only benefit of the change would be the end-game modifiers at 42~48, but due to the fact my 'to be PL' of +280~290k drops down to 207k it's a fair trade-off.
Honestly, there are only two methods this will work.
A: I race-change and avoid the drama other bio-androids will surely experience. B: We find a means to make absorbs finally lose all the drama elements they cause.
|
|
|
Post by President Bao on May 29, 2015 16:00:44 GMT
I know you're providing it as context but this topic isn't about your race proposal, it's about the de-fission itself And no one is accusing you over anything, this is simply a thread created because the mechanics for 'un-fissioning' haven't been clarified so we need community to decide how this should work rather than however you spoke with (staff merely enforce community decided rules, no community decided rule exists so we need to discuss).
|
|
Zucceta
Administrator
PL: 379,083
Oozaru(x10) MSSj(x15) S.Ooz(x22) SSj2(25x)
Zeni: 2290
Tag: @admin
OOC Name: therevolution
Posts: 2,309
|
Post by Zucceta on May 29, 2015 16:06:42 GMT
Community deciding rules is currently up heavily for debate, and given that being in flux, I made the executive decision that re-fusion between two characters that are played by the same person occur as a sort of 'un-transfer'.
20k of the 'weaker' character's PL is added back to the primary PL-bearing character, provided that the fission occurred in a manner which acted as a transfer. Any items earned by the weaker account are added to the fused character, as they are mechanically 'spent' experience.
However, I'd be happy for this decision to be debated.
|
|
Mayze
Moderator
PL: 250,469
Super Saiyan(x12) MSSJ(x15)
Zeni: 849
Shoki: 2,965
Tag: @gagelange10
OOC Name: Gage
Posts: 1,232
|
Post by Mayze on May 31, 2015 3:56:46 GMT
Rei is a bio android, so we could simply say she absorbed her other character.
|
|
|
Post by Kayle on May 31, 2015 4:33:05 GMT
I don't see a problem with this at all. I mean reabsorbing is set in the series. Piccolo absorbed Kami, and Bad Buu ate Good Buu. Also, and I know it's not canon to this site, but Good Buu fused with Uub in GT because Uub was reincarnated bad buu. Yes none of these are like this situation, but I still think it supports it happening personally.
|
|
|
Post by President Bao on May 31, 2015 5:54:37 GMT
For some context guys, the reason I have made this is to secure a clear community verdict which shall be applied equally to all from this point forward. The circumstances currently do not align with previous rulings - I outline these not in support of one method over the other, but simply to provide context on what is currently in place: > The form of fission used was the equivalent to a transfer. 20,000pl from old char to new. The rules on this are that no more than 20,000 can be retained, though fission differs in that the previous character is not lost.
> In past instances of transfers, the community voted that people cannot transfer pl if they are above this 20k threshold. The exceptions to this were for people who requested a transfer before hitting this threshold but exceeded it in the meantime. These people had not played these old characters during this latency.
> Zeni was deemed to be transferable to your new character by the community, following the same rules as pl transfer. > Additionally, when fission occured the race was allowed to be changed(good rei being human), as this was deemed to be the same as 20k PL transfer to a human 'new character', and was what they desired for the new char. There is obviously parallel here between Reikiko's current desire to swap race, and this previous instance of a race change. (and other previous instances, of other people transferring in order to change race).> our one precedence for this was when member Azurai decided he wanted to retcon his character from a human monk into a namekian monk. The community decision was that as per the transfer rules he would only retain 20,000pl. at the time this only represented a negligible loss, where as this current situation with rei would represent a much higher loss. Now, as for specifics of Rei relevant to this situation:Backing Context:> When the idea first emerged it was noted to rei that while he could eventually reunite the two as part of their story, however normal alt account rules apply meaning no advantages can be attained(such as the pl). [this was said to be okay as good rei was just a social character] > Rei decided on a 'shared life' story for the split (this is not a requirement of fission, but it is an option they wanted), meaning if one rei dies so does the other. >* This was further emphasised when Rei had Yami defend Avalon, and it was reiterated that the two characters, being alternate accounts, should not be interjecting in each others affairs as this could be considered a form of metagaming, (alts instead ideally be written in such a way that this OOC separation requirement is explained ICly too). I believe[correct me if I am wrong ] rei is/was concerned of the possibility of good rei being targeted, and so decided to merge early. Rule-related Context:> Yami Rei, at 200,000pl has exceeded the 20k limiter on transfers > Good rei was still being played at the time leading up to the merger, and all threads done as this other character have now been added to Yami instead. (alongside the 20k, then adds up to around 40k pl awarded when these threads were closed off. This is a large factor in why I have been brought in on this matter) > Yami rei is a bio-android, meaning absorption is a possible option for recombining the characters. Absorption however gives 33% of the victims pl if done for the semi or perfect forms, or x8 bio-metabolise multiplier if not(rather than to 100% currently enacted). ---- As you can see, in the face of this it's obviously important to get a community verdict one way or the other, as the current rulings indicate that poor rei may currently be sitting on up to 40,000pl of 'illegitimate' gains, which is relevant to the active saga thread she has recently entered. If these are indeed dubbed as non-applicable, Rei would not be forced to continue in the saga, and could instead choose ret-con her entrance if desired(I would certainly vote in favour of being allowed to undo given bait-and-switch). These verdicts then have specific repercussions for another ongoing poll currently, Rei's race-swap, which is also dealing with a '100% transfer' from one character to another.
|
|
|
Post by Kaula on May 31, 2015 6:20:36 GMT
Here's my thoughts on the matter.
I don't care about the 20k, that's cool. I don't know if Rei cares about it, or not.
But after a talk with you in the Cbox, you seem to have a problem with her getting gains from a character she was, essentially, abandoning. Which kinda stinks because they were PL gains and they would not even matter if they were zeni gains.
Just saiyan, that's my two cents. KAULA DAWG; OUT! Peace.
|
|
|
Post by Kayle on May 31, 2015 6:22:32 GMT
> When the idea first emerged it was noted to rei that while he could eventually reunite the two as part of their story, however normal alt account rules apply meaning no advantages can be attained(such as the pl). [this was said to be okay as good rei was just a social character]
I don't know why the PL gain is a debate. I mean that right there says, being forwarned, that rei wouldn't gain PL from absorbing the alt. If it wasn't prewarned, I would say sure. But that right there says that it was, and that it was okayed by the player themselves. So I don't understand the debate as far as that goes.
If that didn't really happen then I retract this statement, but if it did. There ya go.
|
|
|
Post by Zuni on May 31, 2015 7:39:59 GMT
I think that if you have split you should be able to reform and get your PL back, maybe even change race if the narrative makes sense, with the caveat that Little Man Bonuses if any shouldn't have been applied to any PL gains on the split alt if your old character has surpassed the level where they would be achievable.
Otherwise it is a loophole to get higher PL gains than you would normally be able to achieve (not saying that happened in this case - but rules should be made with the potential for abuse in mind, not the best case scenario).
In this particular instance I think the current ruling should stand because, narratively speaking, it is what makes the most sense - and that's ultimately what we're here to enjoy, isn't it?
|
|
|
Post by Reikiko on May 31, 2015 13:00:36 GMT
Just saying this here:
'illegitimate' gains
is quite a wrong statement. Reikiko had 20k PL transfered from Yami Rei, and ALL her gains have been Zeni. The PL Yami Rei gained on top of that were all Reikiko posts from threads that had Yami Rei modifiers, so there's nothing illegitimate about it. They are merely, to quote the words of another staff member 'Unspent exp'
|
|
Zucceta
Administrator
PL: 379,083
Oozaru(x10) MSSj(x15) S.Ooz(x22) SSj2(25x)
Zeni: 2290
Tag: @admin
OOC Name: therevolution
Posts: 2,309
|
Post by Zucceta on May 31, 2015 13:09:14 GMT
The 20k PL from Good Rei operates as an 'untransfer' for several reasons; mainly OOC drama that has been pretty hard on Rei, and I don't think this PL should go anywhere. And if the rest of this PL was moderated using a refused multiplier, like Rei said; the gain is 'unspent' and there is no reason this writing should just be 'written off', excuse the pun.
|
|
|
Post by Zuni on May 31, 2015 13:27:33 GMT
I'm not sure I understand.
PL becomes harder to attain as you have more of it. So if you had a 5000 word post written with a high level character (A) and a low level character (B), and it would get the exact same grade on all other categories, it'd earn more on character B than character A, right?
All I'm saying is that splitting shouldn't become a loophole to let you gain faster on A than people who don't split and focus all their writing into the one character. There should still be a reward, yes, but it should be at the rate you would have gotten if you'd just done the RP with A to begin with.
|
|
Zucceta
Administrator
PL: 379,083
Oozaru(x10) MSSj(x15) S.Ooz(x22) SSj2(25x)
Zeni: 2290
Tag: @admin
OOC Name: therevolution
Posts: 2,309
|
Post by Zucceta on May 31, 2015 13:35:46 GMT
^ Agreed. In this case, though, Rei didn't gain any PL on her 'Good' character, simply zenni, which doesn't get any bonuses.
|
|
|
Post by Reikiko on May 31, 2015 13:46:10 GMT
^ Pretty much. To explain in detail Zuni, when I said 'Yami Rei modifiers' it means all the gains from the 'unused' posts were done without LMB and Weight bonuses, things Yami Rei doesn't have access to.
So in essence the only PL I gained from 'good Rei' was the 20k from the transfer, all other gains are Zeni, or posts that were earned with Yami Rei (stronger character) her modifiers.
So to give an example:
I made a post on Good Rei, and if I got it graded with Good Rei modifiers I would have gained more than with Yami Rei, because of all the perks lower level characters earn. Of course this would have been an unfair gain if I transferred them to Yami Rei, hence I waited to be graded, and used Yami Rei her modifiers instead. Meaning my PL rewards were all gained, as if it was Yami Rei instead of Good Rei (meaning reduced gains compared to Good Rei)
|
|