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Post by Zuni on May 24, 2015 13:25:21 GMT
I disagree with the idea you shouldn't be able to teach your techniques to others.
There's an implication that with a school, you are obliged to teach others. With a palace, I see it working better as a 'Babidi's Ship' type situation, where the relationship is far more one-sided, and whilst you should have the ability to hand out cool stuff to people who earn it, you'd be under absolutely no obligation to reward anyone else if you didn't want to.
I feel like paying more for that freedom is fine. Paying more for less wouldn't make much sense to me.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 14:11:14 GMT
I see where you're coming from. Maybe it would fit better if the teaching was a bit more restrictive? Maybe say instead of teaching just anyone it'd be more fit to teaching members of your faction. It'd make more sense, in my mind. Instead of teaching a visitor to the palace, you're spreading your techniques to strengthen those you fight alongside. With Masters it makes more sense to take on students from several different cuts of cloth, but to someone with a Palace, it'd be a little wonky to invite a stranger in and just be like ''hey, you look like you could -really- use a devastating attack''. EDIT: Mainly what i'm trying to do is balance the fact that Schools have the gi system currently, while it sounds like Palaces would not. Students of a school at present have to fork over Zeni to learn from a School, so i'm trying to find a way to make it fair for students of a Palace and students of a School, otherwise characters would have a lot more incentive to brush off a School in favor of said Palace.
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Mojo
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Post by Mojo on May 24, 2015 16:32:47 GMT
Making the palace significantly more expensive helps with the fact that it is less-restricted/weighed down by responsibility than tutors are.
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Post by Zuni on May 24, 2015 16:35:47 GMT
This is totally tangential to the conversation, but can you combine these buildings into the one place?
So for instance if you want a +50% pl gain, a +50% 'shop' (probably a lab or something) and a Palace (or dojo or whatever) that is really all the same building, is that cool?
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Zucceta
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Post by Zucceta on May 28, 2015 17:19:38 GMT
This is totally tangential to the conversation, but can you combine these buildings into the one place? So for instance if you want a +50% pl gain, a +50% 'shop' (probably a lab or something) and a Palace (or dojo or whatever) that is really all the same building, is that cool? You can flavour it whatever, having 'one building' ICly serve multiple shop-purchase purposes is fine.
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Zucceta
Administrator
PL: 379,083
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Post by Zucceta on Jun 1, 2015 20:16:57 GMT
I meant to propose an alternative to having a 'custom' special be locked to a building. This method would require between 7 and 10 technique slots (42k-60k 'PL-exp') to be spent on one, and it'd have to be built upon an existing Tier 3 technique. HOWEVER, I think locking a Special to zenni was part of the intended design, as it forces zenni-exp rather than PL-exp gain.
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Jun 1, 2015 20:39:03 GMT
I've no real idea on what everyone's voting on here. I see it's in relation to Academies but... What exactly are they doing, as in the actual description? I see what Dojos and Martial Arts Schools/Academies do (which are as follows):
So... What'll this do? Same thing as the Academy, but be for the Royals instead?
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Zucceta
Administrator
PL: 379,083
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Post by Zucceta on Jun 1, 2015 20:54:14 GMT
Palaces are for anyone to purchase and give the buyer a 'special', but they are not obligated to teach it. Some players consider this a boon, some a negative; I personally think not being obligated to teach it is a positive, as most players do not intend to fill a teacher role but rather a 'heroic' role (although the two are not mutually exclusive).
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Post by Zuni on Jun 1, 2015 21:06:28 GMT
The idea is they do the same thing as Academy but with no obligation to take on students.
There were a few other questions which came up when it came time to go to ballot though.
First - Should this 'stack' with the ability to have an Academy? Can I buy both and create two specials? Second - Should this be a Palace with the noble rank or equivalent that entails, or should it just be a zeni sink you can describe how you like? Third (raised by Zucceta above) - Should this cost zeni at all or be linked to unused tech slots?
Personally...
I dislike the idea that any character should be able to have more than one special, custom or not. I can't think of any characters in the show with multiple 'special' techniques, unless we are counting the Spirit Bomb and Kaioken as specials for this purpose - and I think the Kaioken/Makaioken should get a pass on that because of the way it is learned. Otherwise, I think you should only be able to have one 'special' and if you want to learn another you have to give up the first - say that the intense focus needed to maintain such a technique in your style prohibits having two. So that'd be my answer to the first question.
To the second - I don't like the idea of tying rank like that to big expensive zeni purchases, because it makes characters who have purchased a special 'more lordly' than characters who haven't. I think if you wanna play Emperor Pilaf you should be free to do so without needing to invest in heavy martial arts you're never going to use. I'd much rather the 'palace' idea was dropped in favour of a literal 'Special Technique Slot' item purchase. This'd also have to raise the cost of the slot by 20,000 zeni to cover the 'building' (which would mean a hefty 50,000 zeni pricetag). You'd lose the boost to personal gains, too, but I don't see that as necessarily a problem. Maybe the price could be haggled over some more. Right now, it costs 45,000 zeni to rush up to an Academy and my gut says 5,000 more with no expectation of taking on students and no inherent PL gain is fine. I actually think taking on students is a good thing for your character because it encourages people to interact with them - and to do so in a positive way - but I can understand giving a discount for something that is likely to generate more RP for the game.
Finally for the third - I think it needs to stay as a zeni sink. I can see that the tech slots idea makes a lot more sense narratively speaking, but as Hyoza said elsewhere, most of the canon special techniques (Special Beam Cannon, Destructo Disc, Tri-Beam and Spirit Bomb) were all learned at relatively low levels of power in the show. Furthermore, there's not much on the list that you can buy which doesn't directly impact your PL or your gains to PL. This would help add a distraction at upper levels of play and slow down gains. (At 5 training threads a week, you'd probably be looking at a full month of throwing zeni at this rather than pushing yourself further ahead on PL, not including zeni gain from other sources.)
I don't think I missed any other questions from the poll but I might be wrong because there were a few.
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Jun 2, 2015 0:04:43 GMT
Ah! So basically, the intent is 'Royals/Solos.'
In which case, I'm fine with this. It means that we can tweak the royalties' specials in the respective empires from being instant-UP2 (when you can simply train and earn it... Seriously, that's not really fulfilling) to being worthy Specials and allow 'solo' players to establish 'top-dog' roles.
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Post by President Bao on Jun 5, 2015 15:26:30 GMT
When I mentioned palace as being academy with no requirement to teach but slightly more expensive I meant as in quite literally the same. Everything about it the exact same, the process to upgrade/buy, the custom special move, the uniform in the shop still being required from anyone wanting to gain the special from you. (you may notice the existing monarchs such as the saiyan king already have their uniform listed ready) We have the list of Masters and Monarchs. We then have the Academy so you can become a custom Master. So the Palace is to be a custom Monarch. simple and easy. I also see no real reason to restrict the number of specials, the cost already justifies/offsets the reward, if someone really wants to pay for 4 palaces to have 4 specials they should be able to, if they want to have 1 academy and 2 palaces on the side they should be able to. Specials are good... but 100,000 zeni is the sort of work which would have gotten them one or even two new transformations(roughly x10 multiplier) if they'd been pl training instead. (3)
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Mojo
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Post by Mojo on Jun 5, 2015 15:41:38 GMT
I disagree on allowing people having no cap on Specials. they supposed to be special, if people can just hoard them, that effect is lost.
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