Mayze
Moderator
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Super Saiyan(x12) MSSJ(x15)
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Post by Mayze on May 1, 2015 17:06:05 GMT
Androids are a Machine, it makes sense that they should be allowed to be rebuilt, but there should be a consequence like a PL loss or whatever and if you are so thoroughly destroyed that there isn't even a single important part of you left then you should be considered dead for good and because androids wouldn't have a soul (androids are like Data from Star Trek the androids in DBZ are actually Cyborgs) then they are outright dead, no chance of being brought back. Still, it's hardly fair. Hell, why would we even have permanent death. What's the point of it other than to punish the players. If I end my characters story, I do it my way.
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Mayze
Moderator
PL: 250,469
Super Saiyan(x12) MSSJ(x15)
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Tag: @gagelange10
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Posts: 1,232
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Post by Mayze on May 1, 2015 17:09:47 GMT
Besides, having a permanent death would take the fun out of it for me. I don't want to be overly cautious and never join a Saga thread.
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Post by Hyoza on May 1, 2015 17:10:09 GMT
Then basically, don't put them in positions where they're likely to die often. Like reality.
You can play your character how you want, but there have to be consequences. Making death cheap is poor design IMO. Might as well go play CoD.
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Mayze
Moderator
PL: 250,469
Super Saiyan(x12) MSSJ(x15)
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Tag: @gagelange10
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Posts: 1,232
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Post by Mayze on May 1, 2015 17:14:03 GMT
Then basically, don't put them in positions where they're likely to die often. Like reality. You can play your character how you want, but there have to be consequences. Making death cheap is poor design IMO. Might as well go play CoD. Like CoD? CoD doesn't have character depth. CoD doesn't make you work hard for your gains. CoD doesn't make you like your characters. CoD doesn't have plot. CoD, has nameless people. If you really want to punish people for death, and make it harder to participate in the fun, then go ahead.
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Post by Hyoza on May 1, 2015 17:29:21 GMT
It's not just up to me. That's why we have these discussions, Mayze.
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Mayze
Moderator
PL: 250,469
Super Saiyan(x12) MSSJ(x15)
Zeni: 849
Shoki: 2,965
Tag: @gagelange10
OOC Name: Gage
Posts: 1,232
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Post by Mayze on May 1, 2015 20:53:03 GMT
It's not just up to me. That's why we have these discussions, Mayze. I know it's up to you, I just don't see why you want it. Note: I've realized I've been quite rude in this thread. Sorry about that Hyzoa, I've just haven't had the greatest day so far.
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Vi-Poi
Administrator
Premier of Earth
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Post by Vi-Poi on May 1, 2015 21:32:51 GMT
I was always of the opinion that there should be means other than the Dragon Balls. These would have the normal Shoki cost of getting out of the AL increased with tiers for each time you die that is equivalent to the WC requirements of starting more than a normal number of alts. For instance, after a certain number of deaths, you would max out at a Shoki cost of 12,000 to escape without the Dragon Balls and still have the 2 week wait time, or possibly have it increased to a full month.
This would stop death from being an easy revolving door, and still make people think twice before jumping into DEs. Death should have a consequence, I don't want to see Krillin-like scenarios where someone has died 6 times and keeps coming back, especially when bonuses are implemented inside of AL, and I think tiering Shoki costs for consecutive deaths could be a great way to translate those increased costs.
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Koramund
Archived
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Post by Koramund on May 1, 2015 21:34:12 GMT
Personally, I think that the one time death is fair, but I think you should be allowed a larger amount of PL to your next character. So for example, lets say our mods who GRADE these things, decide in a staff thread how the person took their death both OOC, and Ic. At the end of the thread, once graded, the mod grading it offers a "Rebirth" pl. If someone takes it like a man, Rps it out very well, and takes it without being offensive to people, then they would have maybe a 40-60%(30-50%) of their PL is taken over.
This is mostly for those people who spent a LARGE amount of time into their character, for me I kinda lost my muse for Koramund, I do not want to play him as much as I used to. If when I died, I could have lets say take a 3rd of my PL with me, I would have loved that! I am still losing a massive amount of PL for dying, but I am at least have a decent incentive to not just say "FUCK THIS!" and quit the site because of losing so much PL, Zeni, and items. We shouldn't look at everything as BALANCe, but instead also with emotion. We get tied to our characters, but once we lose sensation with them, we either change them to be better, or slowly detach from them. I used to be Koramund, the obliterate of Jingle Village, Baron of the Red Sands, and the first (PC) Bio Android! Now, I feel like I am being treated poorly, ESPECIALLY from how people helped me with After Life, all the failed promises, and in general just the feeling of being forsaken. The way my character grew was cool and interesting for me, but I feel he doesn't belong anymore, ad I simply want a character I wanted originally.
Sorry for rambling, but in short = We need to give a better reason to stay, for Kami's sake, we only allow 20K PL? That may be a lot, but what about if Reikiko dies, or Vi-poi? Vi = 160K POWER LEVEL Rei = 173K POWER LEVEL! What reason do THEY have to stay when they take that massive hit to their power level? Not much! They lost all their items, their character, their history, and all their transformations. Rei would be back to a Bio Android (if she wanted that) that would require almost 200,000 WORDS TO get back to normal! Who wants to endure that damn pain all over again? I have to soon to still enjoy this site, but the penalty is to high. If it was 20%/25% instead of 20K, that would be much better, but now we just treat our members like shit for dying. "Oh you died? RP 8 thousand words by yourself with no modifiers as a puff ball who can't do anything but squeaky talk and see the limited environment!" "Oh you died twice? TO DAMN BAD, you are stuck in Hell/Heaven forever until someone with the Dragon balls shows up to revive you! Welcome to Solo land!" That was how badly I was damn treated, and I am the tester of the After-life. This is one of the harshest and poorly thought out parts of our system, the ENTIRE AFTERLIFE!
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Post by Hyoza on May 1, 2015 21:59:33 GMT
Okay, guys. Calm yoselves.
Single-revive was never a thing, firstly. Not sure how that idea arose. But since it did, we're having this discussion.
I am happy for a single-revive system with no extra PL for starting new characters. It would help prevent the story from being dominated by the same characters the whole way through(I mean seriously, bugger off already Goku), and keep new characters cycling in at low tiers to give newbies experienced players to hang with at their own level .
On the flipside, I get some people are more attached to their specific characters than I am. And the idea of perma-death is somehow repulsive to them. If a lot of people share this view, then electing perma-death is likely to damage member intake/retention.
BUT death cannot be a goddamn revolving door. It got absolutely RIDICULOUS in the series how often some people died. You literally didn't care after the Frieza saga, because you knew they were gonna be brought back in a few months tops anyways.
Therefore, I suggest that the Shoki requirement to escape the AL increases by a certain percentage/set amount each time a character is sent back. The only time the requirement will not rise is if they are brought back through the Dragon Balls.
Death is not gonna be cheap, whatever else it may be.
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Zucceta
Administrator
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Post by Zucceta on May 9, 2015 14:05:13 GMT
My touting of the 'single-free-revive' system is due to its implementation in the past, and I believe repeated deaths should have more weight.
Canonically (well, let's count some anime), let's look at the ways people have revived/escaped from AL.
- Dragon Balls - Kaioshin exchanging life (Elder Kaio to Goku) - Janemba/HFIL/Afterlife "Integrity" shenanigans (Fusion Reborn movie) - That one part of GT with the dumb robot fusion for some reason
As you can see, going from canon, a 'free revive' is pretty nice going.
Characters and their arcs are given weight by death holding weight. It needn't be permanent, fine. But each death should be potent and should have meaning, both for your own character and those with relationships to it, and I believe this potency is strengthened by not busting out of Hell in a couple of weeks by writing out a loud of Shoki threads.
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Mayze
Moderator
PL: 250,469
Super Saiyan(x12) MSSJ(x15)
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Tag: @gagelange10
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Post by Mayze on May 9, 2015 14:12:33 GMT
My touting of the 'single-free-revive' system is due to its implementation in the past, and I believe repeated deaths should have more weight. Canonically (well, let's count some anime), let's look at the ways people have revived/escaped from AL. - Dragon Balls - Kaioshin exchanging life (Elder Kaio to Goku) - Janemba/HFIL/Afterlife "Integrity" shenanigans ( Fusion Reborn movie) - That one part of GT with the dumb robot fusion for some reason As you can see, going from canon, a 'free revive' is pretty nice going. Characters and their arcs are given weight by death holding weight. It needn't be permanent, fine. But each death should be potent and should have meaning, both for your own character and those with relationships to it, and I believe this potency is strengthened by not busting out of Hell in a couple of weeks by writing out a loud of Shoki threads. I'd be fine with the time in the afterlife extended for each death, I just don't like the thought of perma death.
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