Reikiko
Rising Soul
PL: 1; Cherub Cry(x3): 3; Items:One-Use SpacePod; Zeni: 0;
Tag: @chibireikiko
Posts: 61
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Post by Reikiko on Apr 15, 2015 10:25:47 GMT
So, I been toying with an idea of how we sort of 'can' populate the afterlife, or at least give it player tutors that kind of remain important/fun to play.
Player Tutors and relevant to site plot: The idea is that player tutors are supposed to be a semi-permanent something. When a player enters the afterlife and has a high enough PL requirement they pretty much are given a choice to become a Player Tutor (if all slots aren't filled by active tutors). A player tutor is exactly that: Someone who teaches and guides people in the afterlife/and be neat in afterlife sagas. Aside from getting access to techniques that are pretty much 'special' in nature, they also will be the only ones who can earn PL like normally due to the fact they 'don't just leave the afterlife'.
Player Tutors are also your player gravity chambers, in the sense that people can train alongside them to get a fancy +150% bonus to Shoki/Soul Energy gain (but only up to twice a week) (for the tutor this counts as PL)
Now the important part: Once you become a Player Tutor you are stuck in the afterlife for at least a half year. It's not something to be taken lightly, and more or less a 'long-term role'.
Of course, if you didn't die once before you can use your free revive later/after your tutor time is up. BUT now the interesting thing, and the thing I need everyone's help with
Player Tutors: Ace Cards for Living World Sagas This was an idea I had as a result of the whole 'Goku being summoned to fight Buu, and teach Fusion Dance etc'. The idea is that in our item shop we will get a means to players (heroes and villains alike) to obtain an item that will summon either a random tutor, or a specific tutor (but what item summons who is more or less a secret).
Those items work two-fold. 1: They give a fair PL boost akin to a super Zenkai (debatable, but the idea is that it would be a good reason to use such an item) but at the same time those items would summon a tutor, and make your topic become a Saga/DE.
What use does this idea have?
1: You get to be able to summon a powerful character who 'might' be an aid for your goals. Of course the good tutors are more than likely to help out a fellow hero, compared to the villains who might end up trying to work against you.
Imagine for a moment: Zucceta has this powerful (but also expensive) item and while fighting Vipoi, she is forced to deal with a late challenger in the form of Wyntre. Clearly outmatched, Zucceta senses the artifact calling for her and uses it. gaining a PL boost AND summons a tutor into the saga/DE...
Evil Reikiko, who has been in the afterlife to prepare some grand scheme finds herself summoned onto the battlefield, and with Vipoi being an enemy she gladly joins Zucceta for the fight, pretty much turning her into an ally for Zucceta.
However, this summon lasts only till the end of the Saga/DE, and unless the tutor has their free revival they 'disappear' once the time is up (back into the afterlife).
2: Learning moves without kicking the bucket.
A more interesting alternative is like Goku teaching the Fusion Dance, where instead of summoning an ally into a saga, you might summon a teacher who could possibly teach you their moves, allowing them to remain for a set period of time (translated into training topics with said summoner) before disappearing back into the afterlife.
Note those items would be expensive, like Tier 4 Shop type of expensive, but as a result would be equally awesome.
-The main issue that was here is the fact it doesn't fit into the DBZ setting/theme, so if we were to have an idea like that we would need to find a way to make a summoning like this etc work in the setting.-
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Ryo
Rising Soul
PL: 39,366; Spiritual Will(x3): 118,098; Items: One-Use SpacePod, Heavy Weights (1/4 of PL), Senzu Bean; Zeni: 297
Tag: @ryo
Posts: 110
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Post by Ryo on Apr 15, 2015 12:08:46 GMT
I'm really interested in becoming one of these Tutors, especially with Ryo (Or possibly another character alltogether). (As I've said several times before) It seems like a splendid idea, and would really spice things up.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 7:23:39 GMT
Is this poll supposed to be branching off this one Rei? wodsouls.freeforums.net/thread/2611/afterlife-tutors-canon-originalEDIT: Now that I've read it I can also reply. I love the idea of tutors in general. I'm definitely happy to put Azurai up as a tutor and have no problem with the amount of time required to stay in the after-life and like I'm sure that others, like Ryo, would also be happy for this. I also like the idea of tutors being temporarily brought back but I think that there should be some other restrictions put in place. One I can think of is maybe only those that knew the now deceased and maybe even trained with them can summon them in for battle. This means we can't just keep bringing in people like it's Dark Souls or something. Also the tutor should probably have been a tutor for maybe 4 months in order to be summoned in battle for a 'day'. This isn't as long as the 6 months needed to be revived but it's also long enough so that this tutor can somehow be established and have spent time in the after-life honing their special power. But I don't think the person summoning them should get any sort of extra PL boost. That seems like a bit too much, this summon alone seems like a PL boost, players should at least be prepared to have a senzu if they're jumping into battle.
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Reikiko
Rising Soul
PL: 1; Cherub Cry(x3): 3; Items:One-Use SpacePod; Zeni: 0;
Tag: @chibireikiko
Posts: 61
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Post by Reikiko on Apr 16, 2015 7:29:09 GMT
Yep~ It sort of is meant to be a branch/suggestion to come alongside NPC tutors
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Vi-Poi
Administrator
Premier of Earth
PL: 434,410
Soul(x40P), Overdrive(x43)
Zeni: 1,247
Tag: @vipoi
Posts: 2,833
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Post by Vi-Poi on Apr 17, 2015 6:19:11 GMT
Hey Rei & all. I think this could really imbalance the game, but first we should always have a discussion as per rules before we include a poll to vote upon, else it will invite bias or reflexive voting and the ideas have yet to gel besides. Now I'll get into the particulars of why I think it's a dangerous idea for the game. - There is really no canon precedent for this that we can work with. Baba was an extremely exceptional figure in DB lore. This isn't something you could find in a store. Baba's One-Day Revival spell wasn't only time sensitive, it was effected by how much power the person used, as shown here: To stay beyond and meaningfully fight against Buu, the Supreme Kai had to sacrifice his life for Goku. And to reiterate, Baba is an exceptional figure in the lore. She is almost on a demi-god level, near Kami magic wise, and her ability to revive people for a day is something that shouldn't be purchase-able in a store in my opinion. - Most importantly, game balance, which this would severely effect. Let's go over the situation you've described: Two people are in a Saga, and one person is able to use a non-interrupt-able item to invite the most powerful person in the game from AL to destroy the others in the Saga =plus= potentially receive a large PL boost. From a gameplay perspective, this has multiple issues. The most glaring is the nature of AL in general -- you're not supposed to be able to meaningfully interact with others. This would completely flip that script, and suddenly the people that were winning are about to die to that person that should be in AL. This could mean someone never missing a Saga, even when they're in AL. Someone always being in a dominant role and dangerous, even when they're dead. Do we really want a Goku that is summoned for a win button every time there is a Saga? I do not. - There should be no "champions" or shining characters of Souls that everyone looks to in moments of crisis. - Ace cards. Just as your description says, these would be an ace in the hole for anyone. It'd be a win button. I do not want a game where every Saga is determined by the strongest, even if they're dead. - AL has to have a downside. I've said this in other threads, but I think we are straying in the territory of over-correcting AL and making it too good. If a player doesn't have to worry about missing out on a Saga/DE as long as they coordinate it correctly with their friend, that takes a big part of the weight of dying away, as it allows them to be continuously involved in all world-shaping events. It could cheapen the consequence of death. - We haven't seen what a workable AL tutor system would look like, yet. -The Dragon Balls are supposed to be our revival mechanism.
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Reikiko
Rising Soul
PL: 1; Cherub Cry(x3): 3; Items:One-Use SpacePod; Zeni: 0;
Tag: @chibireikiko
Posts: 61
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Post by Reikiko on Apr 17, 2015 9:41:26 GMT
hmm...
Well an alternative could be that 'when you're dead permanently you're allowed to redux/rebirth'? I don't know but the feeling of someone being gone permanently, and possibly losing all the things they worked so hard for is leaving a sour taste in my mouth. Yes, even if this is a DBZ roleplay, the fact remains many of us will have put months or even more than just months into their character. To see those characters pretty much end up 'going to waste/the trash bin' is something that will cause quite a few people to leave most likely. Even I, despite my fondness of this site would likely lose a lot of IC inspiration if both Reikiko and Evil Rei end up permanently in the after-life without a new alternative being available (and I'm not talking about a 20k transfer, at that point you're talking about 20k versus at least 200k and higher.
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Post by President Bao on Apr 17, 2015 11:40:31 GMT
I disappear for the day and suddenly tutors are instant 150% grav chambers who apply shoki benefits (I kinda made shoki to remove amplifiers from the picture XD) AND they can be summoned like yugioh monsters into the middle of a saga thread O.O In your scenario rei, evil reikiko can just instead work up the (2500) shoki required to return to life and then jump into any saga she feels like. This sounds a lot like it's trying to solve an issue which doesn't exist :X
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Post by Reikiko on Apr 17, 2015 11:55:30 GMT
Mmm, it doesn't exist 'yet'. But what if someone died once? Can you just get the shoki again, and again? That's the thing that worries me, since people seem to think that you can only revive once, and then need the dragon balls ^^
But I do get the issue involving them being summoned into saga threads *nod nod*
Albeit, I recall you mentioned you preferred to get players to play the afterlife tutors (instead of NPCs, but I might be wrong here). My main question to that is: How do we motivate people to spend that time, time they could spend on their main character to instead dwell in the afterlife and 'possibly' train someone should they enter the afterlife? I don't think many of us would be interested to make a new character solely for that reason (at least from what I been made to think after the cbox conversations and the other topics about tutors), and using your player character to dwell there... possibly permanently would be even worse ^^
-Is basically trying to figure out how we can finally introduce afterlife tutors in a way that would be fun, balanced (what this suggestion seems to not be) and not too abnormal to fit into the lore/setting-
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Ryo
Rising Soul
PL: 39,366; Spiritual Will(x3): 118,098; Items: One-Use SpacePod, Heavy Weights (1/4 of PL), Senzu Bean; Zeni: 297
Tag: @ryo
Posts: 110
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Post by Ryo on Apr 17, 2015 12:33:32 GMT
I like this because it makes being dead relevant. Adding tutors wouldn't necessarily make it 'Too good'. XD You can just as easily get a tutor in the over world, too. I'm not all for the crazy benefits and stuff, like 150% gravity and the extra shoki and stuff.
I'd like these because it'd bring SOMETHING to the afterlife. Something else to do than RP with yourself, which currently, is all anyone can do. Teaching a special? Cool. That's fine. The other benefits? Irdc. Bringing tutors who teach a special into the Afterlife (Player tutors, mind you) wouldn't break the game or make Heaven, well... a haven. It'd just provide more opportunities for activity.
Now of course, there is the consequence of death. But we've seen that people can obtain their body back. If they could do that, why could they not EARN the ability to train under a tutor during their time of being deceased?
As for reviving in a crisis... maybe? I know if I became a tutor, I wouldn't be particularly interested in it. I just want to bring activity to the people already in the afterlife so they don't end up creating new characters like we've see so far. Now that's a better alternative wouldn't ya think?
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Vi-Poi
Administrator
Premier of Earth
PL: 434,410
Soul(x40P), Overdrive(x43)
Zeni: 1,247
Tag: @vipoi
Posts: 2,833
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Post by Vi-Poi on Apr 17, 2015 15:50:28 GMT
I think the better solution for that would be to allow for infinite revives, either with Shoki or with the Dragon Balls. Perhaps we can have it so AL revive costs tier up in Shoki much like BPs do, with a hard cap somewhere in the ten thousands along with the hard two week wait time. I agree that a character shouldn't be thrown in AL for months on end, but I don't think this is the simplest solution.
This is also why I think NPC OCs (as in your pilot test) should play the AL tutors. There isn't much to do in AL. Player characters doing it sounds nice on paper, but according to Zucceta they've ran that experiment on past sites and from what I understand it always ends in failure. We can't assume we're a special case in the chronology, we should try something different.
An NPC OC would be an on demand system, so the tutor would only appear when needed. There won't be any "bored as Hell in Hell" moments for the tutors, and better still, there will be no character biases that flow down from the person's relationships and social dynamics.
Not to get off on a tangent though, the idea of summoning a powerful person from AL seems overwhelming. We're talking about something that happened in canon with a very singular individual, Baba, which had major restrictions attached including power restrictions. These power restrictions would fly in the face of the idea of giving a PL boost when summoned, and their ability to compete at full power in a Saga.
If they provide 150x GC-like bonuses during training, that's another large problem. Those benefits are intended to be special, something you not only pay large Zeni to access, but something you build up to over the months. AL should have neat quirks, not world-beating or world-ending stuff that can be accessed. We've seen players here rush to die when they thought there were large benefits awaiting them in AL. With benefits like these in place, many will be lining up to die instead of trying to avoid it, as should be the case.
Most of all, my problem with it is what Bao brings up. Dead people shouldn't steer what happens in the living realm. There has to be a timeout.
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Mayze
Moderator
PL: 250,469
Super Saiyan(x12) MSSJ(x15)
Zeni: 849
Shoki: 2,965
Tag: @gagelange10
OOC Name: Gage
Posts: 1,232
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Post by Mayze on Apr 17, 2015 16:19:30 GMT
I think the better solution for that would be to allow for infinite revives, either with Shoki or with the Dragon Balls. Perhaps we can have it so AL revive costs tier up in Shoki much like BPs do, with a hard cap somewhere in the ten thousands along with the hard two week wait time. I agree that a character shouldn't be thrown in AL for months on end, but I don't think this is the simplest solution. This is also why I think NPC OCs (as in your pilot test) should play the AL tutors. There isn't much to do in AL. Player characters doing it sounds nice on paper, but according to Zucceta they've ran that experiment on past sites and from what I understand it always ends in failure. We can't assume we're a special case in the chronology, we should try something different. An NPC OC would be an on demand system, so the tutor would only appear when needed. There won't be any "bored as Hell in Hell" moments for the tutors, and better still, there will be no character biases that flow down from the person's relationships and social dynamics. Not to get off on a tangent though, the idea of summoning a powerful person from AL seems overwhelming. We're talking about something that happened in canon with a very singular individual, Baba, which had major restrictions attached including power restrictions. These power restrictions would fly in the face of the idea of giving a PL boost when summoned, and their ability to compete at full power in a Saga. If they provide 150x GC-like bonuses during training, that's another large problem. Those benefits are intended to be special, something you not only pay large Zeni to access, but something you build up to over the months. AL should have neat quirks, not world-beating or world-ending stuff that can be accessed. We've seen players here rush to die when they thought there were large benefits awaiting them in AL. With benefits like these in place, many will be lining up to die instead of trying to avoid it, as should be the case. Most of all, my problem with it is what Bao brings up. Dead people shouldn't steer what happens in the living realm. There has to be a timeout. Haven't read through your entire thing, but if I died multiple times, I don't want the Shoki cost to go up. I don't want to roleplay by myself for a month.
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