Tao Lung
Rising Soul
PL: 1,671; Intense Struggle (x3): 5,013; Items: 1 use space pod, Heavy Weights (2521.5| 7564.5); Zeni: 2797
Tag: @sacidepatinete
Posts: 172
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Post by Tao Lung on Apr 4, 2015 15:11:42 GMT
Perhaps people could have a Fatigue meter that starts at 0%, which they post by the end of every post. Every action will increase this count by x, ie: -Dodging uses up 10% (Less if you have an Afterimage technique) -Blocking uses up 5% -Every tier of technique uses 10% (this means 30% for tier 3 techs... perhaps 40% for a special powerful technique) -Charging a technique uses an extra +10% -Every post you don't use a technique you recover 5% of lost fatigue -"Recharge" could be introduced as a Power Up support technique (imagine in db when tired people suddenly burst energy around them and seem to "refresh" their ki source a bit. Like charging, you would avoid taking actions for a post to replenish fatigue meter with -50% for example. -Transforming would instantly replenish your fatigue meter the first time you transform in the thread. -Once you reach 50% fatigue, you stop recovering fatigue passively (will require a Recharge tech; androids would be exempt from this limitation for the nearly infinite energy supply thing). -Once you cross the 50% fatigue mark, your pl starts to suffer penalties. You take twice as much penalty to pl for every 1% over 50% fatigue. This means if you have a fatigue of 55%, you'll take a penalty of 10% to pl. If you have a fatigue of 75%, you take a penalty of 50% to your pl. You you have a fatigue of 100%, you're at 0% pl (doesn't mean you're dead, just completely exhausted and unable to fight anymore). Needless to say, androids suffer no penalties to pl (but can still reach 100% fatigue and deplet their ki source)
The "cost" for every action can be better thought. I just threw in some crude, easy numbers to illustrate the idea.
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Post by Hyoza on Apr 4, 2015 15:21:15 GMT
It's not a bad system, but again, it seem unnecessarily bulky Tao. I am, as ever, a proponent of the most streamlined rules additions. Simplicity is what makes this site.
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Tao Lung
Rising Soul
PL: 1,671; Intense Struggle (x3): 5,013; Items: 1 use space pod, Heavy Weights (2521.5| 7564.5); Zeni: 2797
Tag: @sacidepatinete
Posts: 172
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Post by Tao Lung on Apr 4, 2015 15:32:44 GMT
I understand. It's easier than it sounds though. You just post a "x%" by the end of your post, which will be modiefied accordying to the one action you do in your post... you don't use techs, you add -5%... you use a technique, you add +10-30%. Not a big deal.
If the main concern is to keep things simple, then its better to leave things as they are, unmodified. If we are looking for alternatives to technique spamming, it will involve new rules. And new rules imply in changing the system, making it slighty more complicated than it where without the new set of guidelines. And if we are to change the system, even in the slight bit, I propose something workable, but at the same time simple enough. And I believe a fatigue system holds those qualities.
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Post by Hyoza on Apr 4, 2015 18:44:37 GMT
The point I am making, is that what you propose goes beyond the bare necessities - right now, we need to modify the combat system to prevent technique spam, and to actually provide some sort of mechanical function for passive techniques (basic melee attacks/ki blasts), which have always been a part of the system, but never had any actual mechanical function attached to them. A fatigue system introduces a new layer of complexity which I really don't feel is necessary to solve these problems.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2015 18:47:45 GMT
Ki pool feels like it would be more like dbz, and more balanced.
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Apr 5, 2015 23:22:51 GMT
Question to everyone: Do we want to have this be put to vote now or do you wish to discuss this further?
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Post by Reikiko on Apr 5, 2015 23:26:43 GMT
What will we exactly be voting for? Since quite a few questions remain in my head:
Ki Pool: With or without a buff that rewards none-tech use?
Ki Pool Charges: What about support techniques? Will they consume charges, or have a pool of their own? How about tiers etc?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2015 23:29:13 GMT
Vote
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Apr 5, 2015 23:36:45 GMT
Well, when the voting goes down, present each idea that has been presented in this thread and flattened out. I'm currently in the mind set of, "Set up the mechanics and mat them down. We can add on to them if needed."
For now, I feel we should see, in full, what each player has in mind for the whole site. No voting yet.
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Tao Lung
Rising Soul
PL: 1,671; Intense Struggle (x3): 5,013; Items: 1 use space pod, Heavy Weights (2521.5| 7564.5); Zeni: 2797
Tag: @sacidepatinete
Posts: 172
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Post by Tao Lung on Apr 6, 2015 0:08:45 GMT
Perhaps we can move the discussion to another thread and have the first post contain the different suggestion in order to make reading easier. I'll see if I can flesh my own idea better out.
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Kaval
Newcomer
PL: 37,028; Items: One-Use SpacePod, Heavy Weights (3,465.25); Zeni: 585;
Tag: @kaval
Posts: 31
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Post by Kaval on Apr 6, 2015 0:21:49 GMT
I don't think there should be a vote, just yet. Like Rekiko said, the possible ideas need to be fleshed out more.
I'm on the fence, leaning toward Hyoza's Ki Pool idea. I think Rei's idea would be awesome, but I will admit that it turns things into more of a number game than they should be.
Let me Suggest a formal rule for the Ki Pool idea, to be used as a voting option:
Each character has, at full power, 6 "Pool Charges". (Certain races might have an additional charge or two)
When charging an attack, 1 Pool Charge is used up for each turn charging the attack.
By this logic, the maximum power for each tier of technique, after charging for six turns, is as follows:
[N1], [V2] ~ 200% of user's total power level. [UP2], [UV3] ~ 400% of user's total power level. [MP3] ~ 600% of user's total power level.
For each turn spent engaging in normal combat, without using techniques, 1 Pool Charge is regained. For each turn spent not in combat (this means that the character doesn't use attacks of any kind, and is not attacked), 2 Pool Charges are regained.
Support techniques used to achieve a non-combat effect (such as telepathy, flight, ki sense/suppression, etc.) do not use Pool Charges. However, a support technique that is used for combat purposes (Such as aiding another character use their technique, or deflecting/avoiding damage [Zanzoken/Rapid Movement, etc.]) consumes Pool Charges as normal.
Does anyone think any modifications should be made?
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Post by President Bao on Apr 6, 2015 2:44:20 GMT
So are, are we defining tech spamming as using a technique every turn? Going to be honest, this sounds more like a 'people just being poor roleplayers' issue than a mechanical issue. Our combat is freeform, just because you can only do one charge per post mechanically doesn't mean that you can't have a fluid and elegant battle. I'm against unnecessary extra complexity interfereing with the freeform aspect of our combat system with random fatigue meters and such. Look at this: wodresurrection.proboards.com/thread/2183/gravity-x30-duel-namek-ozikaiThis is me (see, the typos aren't a new thing ) having a battle with one of the other members back in the day. We have banter, we have a back and forward of regular brawling, and we use techniques to intersperse between and provide the mechanical backing. That's how people should be playing here too, nothing has changed in that respect. no one is forcing people to do the (post one) 'Bao stood there charging' (next post) 'Bao dun a blast' Don't just 'pick your nose a little, then begin charging your galic gun' Jump in, delivery a flurry of punches, blocked or dodged, you continue this assault ferociously - decouple from the brawl with a flip kick aimed at their shoulder then follow it through to leap far above. Charge two ki blasts in your hand, the sun against your back to blind your opponent, then lay into them with a barrage. As the smoke grows to obscure them completely, and the ki energy blinds your ability to sense them amoung the mass of your own broiling energy, cuff your hands backwards declaring something dramatic at your opponent between gasping breaths "I'll crush you, I'll eradicate every last one of you bastards like you did to my mother's uncle's cat-shaped doily collection; ...Galic...." Masses of energy flows into your palm, one palm braced against the next, energy building and building untill a purple aura covers you completely (Galic gun, first charge)Essentially, the one charge per post is in relation to the primary damage candidate of a given post, you can do several moves you just can't say 'Well, cause I did four kamehamehas, 3 spirit bombs and a hellzone grenade, your now getting hit for 8752.5% of my pl this post, kekekeke'. You can do multiple attacks though, all it really means is in terms of mechanical effectiveness, king kamehameha, who does 50 kamehamehas in a single post, would still only do 33% of his pl in damage through these. Get yourself some named melee techniques or other empowered strikes, and then you can even leave the melee brawl itself as your primary damage source. Bao's hands glow with manly glory of his Ultra-manly Fists, manergy flowing into the limbs. He claspes them dramatically and, after a tense moment of silence... The Slappening Begins, limp-wristed, open handed blows raining down everywhere like a sissy hurricane, the opponents cheek, their shoulder, their forearm, their abdomen, their chest, their cheek again, a unending barrage of high intensity pawing, all the while Bao braces with his face turned away and his eyes clasped shut.
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Kaval
Newcomer
PL: 37,028; Items: One-Use SpacePod, Heavy Weights (3,465.25); Zeni: 585;
Tag: @kaval
Posts: 31
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Post by Kaval on Apr 6, 2015 19:09:36 GMT
I haven't been here long, but it seems to me that if people are complaining about tech spam, then yes, some people are "just being poor roleplayers". In my prior roleplay experience, I've never been in a fight where tech spam has been an issue. Everyone I've personally threaded with has been a pretty good sport in that they didn't throw a special attack every single post. But not everyone is a good roleplayer like that. Some people WANT to throw techs like crazy. In a perfect world, that wouldn't be an issue. But some people want to win. And that's not a bad thing, I think. Different people play for different reasons. John Doe might not care in the slightest about winning or powering up, and just wants to help advance the plot. But Gary Stu over there might REALLY want to be the top player on the board. And again, I really don't think there's anything wrong with that. People can play to win if they want to. What IS a problem, however, is when someone puts their own interest to win above the common interest, which is to make a great story. If tech spam is such an issue, no amount of "hey stop spamming techs, please" is going to work. There will always be another Gary Stu hoping to blast everyone away by firing an MP3 twelve times in a row. Hyoza's idea, when put into straightforward terms, is a basic limitation to ensure that nobody gets upset because Gary Stu won't stop shooting Kamehamehas or dodging with Zanzoken every post. A good roleplayer like you, or any of the other notable players on the site, won't even need to worry about this. Honestly, it requires very little thought to actually implement. There's nothing complicated about it. For someone who doesn't use techs very often in the first place, it's even less of an issue. But hey, this is all just an idea. I'm not necessarily 100% for it either. You're totally right in that people should just get better at roleplaying. I just don't see that happening, honestly Anyway, ideas on how to edit the rule are still welcome.
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Post by Mu-Kal on Apr 8, 2015 10:24:31 GMT
Maybe you can't exceed your maximum PL in 3/4 posts, not including a single move charge, and support moves count as 33% so you would be able to use 3 techs in 3/4 posts
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Ryuko
Newcomer
PL: 2,379; Oozaru(x10): 23,790; Items: One-Use SpacePod; Zeni: 2,171
Tag: @ace
Posts: 32
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Post by Ryuko on Apr 8, 2015 11:00:23 GMT
Ki pool is not really a bad idea really though Ki drain can also cause fatigue from what I know (Like Goku Vs Buu or Vegeta Vs final form freeza). The simple plan to work with this, Example: let’s use 100 Ki pool as an example and make it as simple to use as possible.
N1 would cost -10 from X’s pool, to charge would cause a +5 and doubles the longer you charge for.
So if someone uses an N1, they'll waste 10, leaving them at 90 and if they charge for two turns, the drain would be 20, leaving them with 80.
If they want to increase Ki/Energy, they do the same as Zenni and powerlevel, they train to get it a little higher (Which should be really, really hard unless they're a android)
If someone were to use a support then they’ll suffer from the same fate, -10, increases much more base on tiers.
If someone were to like..Transform and etc where it says they gain more energy than do the same thing you do with power level.
The low your Ki pool becomes, the more fatigue you get.
Second idea: Just add a CD on some of the techniques that can be spam for the wrong reasons like Shield, After-Image strike, Planet destroyer technique and Etc if the Ki pool is too difficult to understand. (Gonna have to add a limit somewhere, people can still abuse the hell out of the no draw back for techniques thing.)
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