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Post by Alaistair on Feb 1, 2015 0:19:04 GMT
Hey guys! It's Pieter here, and I've got a question to everyone.
So, as I've been writing up this future Devil King, who's trying to gather up his forces and, I've just had a question in mind here: What's the purpose of getting minions, other than being a commodity to a militant force, or body guards, or any other sort? What else can we do with them?
Can they gather money for us while we're in the middle of a thread? Can they be rp'd with by other players, provided the question? Could they get stronger? These are some of the main questions I've thought of that I feel need addressing first. While, yes, we can acquire other players as members of our force, I'd like to know what the benefits could be, mechanically and in character, for the minions.
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Ora
Archived
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Post by Ora on Feb 1, 2015 0:39:52 GMT
Imho, minions should bring in Zeni.
Like, send them out for a span of two days in real time and they can bring back x amount of Zeni.
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Post by Wyntre Cold on Feb 1, 2015 5:45:41 GMT
I've never used any of my three =P They're just there to look pretty.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2015 0:30:19 GMT
I've been thinking about this greatly.
Since I'm going to potentially, If course of action and RP lead me to it.. Have a saiyan squad.
Meaning, Minions at 75% and 50% and two guards.
I believe instead of such a low number, Guards should have a certain PL of the players character. Like. 10% or something so they always increase. This can also allow for them to earn moves and grow like everybody does. Though I believe their interactions should be limited.
sidekicks(The more expensive ones) Should beable to transform depending on race and go out and do stuff on their own. Of course, with the player controlling them. I mean, 20k is a BIG price. They should start at said % and either grow on their own or like the MAIN CHARACTER of a player does. Meaning they can get PL on their own and monies.
A good example would be Frieza's henchmen. They were pathetic and really only around to serve and get slaughtered. That would be like our GUARDS we have for purchase.
While Goku's Krillin & Gang still helped goku, They grew on their own.
Of course, this system would have to be discussed and worked but I'd LOVE to see more bang for your buck.
Example. Athren & Gang arrive on Planet Earth. Athren's guards stay at the ship or follow Athren, can't really do much except protect.
While Athren's comrade Willow goes off to destroy a city or something.
This is actually a scenario I hope to use in the future.
While Willow's out on her own, the thread grants HER money or PL.
And if Athren's joined. It's split 50/50.
Or, Just allow them to claim money while her PL would raise with Athren's.
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Post by President Bao on Feb 11, 2015 3:21:23 GMT
> They get stronger by you buying higher levels of them, or if they are a minion by increasing your own pl (since they are a percent of your pl when you go up they go up too) > Companions are just another character you can control much like a tag along NPC (except that unlike such characters they are allowed to fight alongside you and help you), though they don't have separate moves or such (they can't have moves that you don't) > Yes you can get grades from them, the grade gets added to their owner so for example you can ask for zeni and then use that zeni to upgrade them. Be aware you will get less from then then you would from your proper character (and they can't have weights or such). > Companions come in two forms, Guards are for people who don't have/intend to get a lot of pl themself (eg. babidi) while Minions are for characters who are personally strong (eg. frieza). Giving guards a percent of your own pl misses the whole point of having guards in the first place XD We have minions for that. > If you want zeni go do a thread, or buy a store ; companions aren't there to make you money, they are there to cost you money .
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2015 3:59:46 GMT
Blah.
BUT..
Minions should grow as characters as well.
I understand the guard part.
but, Minions themselves. You spend the money you should be able to customize them.
As they get 6k pl + they should have the same tech system as the main.
So they can have unique moves themselves. Though, The player would have to do a thread and learn them WITH them.
I was going to buy two minions one at 50% and one at 75%
Both saiyans.
Hoping to learn them different moves type things.
Making them have better uses
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Post by President Bao on Feb 11, 2015 11:09:37 GMT
Nothing is stopping you from developing them as a character, playing out them learning moves or such, that's all just RP flavour. Given their cost at lower levels and the fact that their power level is gained directly from your own(which you've already been given the corresponding tech points for), I was/am dubious about it being particularly fair that you are allowed to get double or even triple the moves you are normally entitled to just by purchasing a minion. You can certainly play it that they *don't* have all the moves you have, or even that you use one of your own technique slots to create a move meant for them only (just have your main character never use it, or create two different versions of it). There were considerations though that as a future extension to the companion system we could add further buyable customisations (buyable transformations, etc.) I will say however I feel guys are undereplaying their inherent value - you clearly want them and see clear use in owning them for your character/RPing, that it itself demonstrates they don't *need* extra incentives to encourage their purchase, (that they already serve their niche). (additionally, since we're on the topic and this is probably inspired in part by the costs for the highest level ones: said expense acts as a test of dedication, a reward for putting in the effort and being a longer term player who by that stage probably *is* ready to branch out a little, rather than just someone who lacks focus. It's also intended to draw your focus away from pl training, to give others a chance to catch up to you ).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2015 16:49:19 GMT
What about money for their own tech slots?
I'd honestly love to have them customized. Unique attacks, etc
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Vi-Poi
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Post by Vi-Poi on Feb 11, 2015 18:04:09 GMT
If you think about it mathematically from a gaming mechanics standpoint, minions in their current form are hugely powerful. For a relatively small amount of money you can increase your effective fighting PL by 75% with a minion. This is a huge advantage in of itself. It is a much more efficient PL Boost to Zeni Cost ratio than any other purchase you can make in the Item Shop, especially when you factor in such things like time and the lack of a minion cap.
Examples:
Your PL: 100,000 New Minion PL: 75,000 New Combined (Effective) PL: 175,000
How long would it take you to gain 75,000 PL IG? Much longer, I suspect, than it would take to earn the Zeni to pay for a minion.
At very high PLs, the effects become even crazier.
PL: 1,000,000 New Minion PL: 750,000 PL New Combined (Effective) PL: 1,750,000
You've just upped your effective PL by 750,000, which is for certain orders of magnitude faster than training for that 750,000. I predict that as this game matures into midgame and lategame states they will have to limit Minion PL's to compensate for this, otherwise there will be a mushrooming of Minion Armies as the rate of return on PL investment plummets in the face of the rate of return on Zeni investment/ minion purchases.
Giving minions tech slots would be overkill, IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 5:55:51 GMT
WELL. If they have techs that your character does.
Same 100% just tweaks for uniqueness.
So, I was going to get Celric and Willow.
Willow's a female saiyan.
So! She'd have Valentine Blast 100% PL. That would be her "Nova Flash" that Athren has.
As long as it's generally the same thing. Beam for Beam, Wave for Wave. Etc.
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Vi-Poi
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Post by Vi-Poi on Feb 19, 2015 1:21:49 GMT
WELL. If they have techs that your character does. Same 100% just tweaks for uniqueness. So, I was going to get Celric and Willow. Willow's a female saiyan. So! She'd have Valentine Blast 100% PL. That would be her "Nova Flash" that Athren has. As long as it's generally the same thing. Beam for Beam, Wave for Wave. Etc. I don't think you can do that, Athren. If you give her a tech like yours, you can't use it. You can make a tech like yours, for her, but it would cost tech slots. Otherwise, you would be doubling your tech count, like what Bao said above.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2015 4:06:49 GMT
If the mechanics of the technique is exactly the same then how bad it out to just change the flavor of the attack or the name? I think it should be just fine for companions to have altered attacks for free as long as the main character has an technique that mirrors it.
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Vi-Poi
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Post by Vi-Poi on Feb 19, 2015 16:55:37 GMT
If you were able to clone your techs onto your minions for free, then you'd be essentially doubling yourself. Minions can attack in the same round you do, according to Bao's post up there. It'd be very overpowering if, say, you bought a 50% PL minion and all the sudden your MP3 attack was effectively 150% rather than 100%. You can still do that, but you have to pay for the techs, which is fair, because it's adding damage to your output.
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Zucceta
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Post by Zucceta on Feb 19, 2015 16:57:48 GMT
I think they're just fine the way they were. Moves can be 'personalised' by taking an existing one you already have and simply renaming it, such as having Zucceta's beam attack 'Warhead' renamed to 'Sinner's Void' should she ever get a minion. It'd still be a beam attack. But it'd just have a different name and colour.
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Vi-Poi
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Post by Vi-Poi on Feb 20, 2015 4:33:04 GMT
So your minion would be able to have all the techs you do?
I think that can be very overpowering, especially in midgame stages of the game. You get a huge advantage, being able to attack more than once in one round, and there should be more than a Zeni cost to that in my opinion.
Once you get into transformations, and your base is less meaningful, then it wouldn't be as impactful, because presumably your companions can't inherit your transformations and the % will be based on your base PL.
Is that the case, or will they be based off your max PL?
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