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Post by President Bao on Jan 1, 2015 8:11:37 GMT
It was suggested by some of the mods that we perhaps reconsider how grading works. Now, grading is a pretty big deal, it is the literal foundation of our entire game, unlike cosmetic changes there is a lot of risk involved if something goes wrong with this aspect. (it's not easy to monitor, if something is wrong it can often take weeks or months before it becomes apparent, meaning it cannot just be undone) I think however, that I've figured out a way this could probably be implemented without breaking the current balance, theoretically.
>Context - Currently the quality of your submissions plays a large factor in your overall grade. This takes some training up, so that different mods learn how to aligned their grading with the wod:souls schema (no one grading too high or too low), and requires that they read the content to apply the grading process. It is how it has worked for quite some time, both here and in predecessor/spin-off sites of the 'world of dragonball' series.
The suggestion brought forward has been to remove/marginalise quality, so that you basically get a flat rate of pl per word.
- Obviously the biggest advantage here is it makes grading very easy and presumably faster to churn out, we literally just plug your word count in without having to read the content, and then spit out your grade. no muss no fuss.
- The biggest downside of such a thing is that there's then no longer the incentive to put in the extra effort or write better quality pieces. If you work your fingers to the bone creating a work of art which brings tears to a grown man's eyes and probably cures cancer just by reading it, then it's understandable that it would be quite discouraging to see someone blindly roll their face across the keyboard a few times and be given the exact same reward, your efforts basically moot.
So, I'm opening this discussion up to the public, while the exact process behind grading is still secret sauce the thrust of this concept/each option is easy to understand and consider. What are your thoughts everyone?
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Jan 1, 2015 9:20:13 GMT
I love quality myself, but at the end of the day having things up to date and running smoothly is far more important for a functional role playing game. I say this with the best of intentions but the wait times can be absurd, and i'm not just talking about during the holidays.
Even if I didn't get an extra reward for it I would still put effort into my writing, because I enjoy writing. Description itself is a powerful tool in generating more words to write. Same basic thought, more words produced. The writer who isn't tapping description will have to come up with more content to equal out the words. Since they aren't being descriptive, they will probably burn through ideas a lot faster and be stuck thinking wayyyy too hard about what to write next.
So, even though it might peeve me a little that someone who wrote a 8000 words in broken English got the same grade as I did, I would realize this is not an advanced role play site and that just because someone isn't as good of a writer it doesn't mean they should be punished- they are probably just learning. Identifying especially bad writers should be done in the application process.
Of course if you aren't checking, you will run into abusers. People who just hide random crap in their hoping no one will notice. You will also miss the opportunity to find mistakes they are making.
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Post by Scargot on Jan 1, 2015 9:36:40 GMT
I personally don't like this change, as a narrator (Grader) On another site I believe quality is what makes the post, not the quantity of the work. I mean as Pipa said you will run into people who will abuse the system and I know that the mods are busy and such but that can be overcome without taking away one of the biggest points when grading a thread. In my opinion.
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Koramund
Archived
PL: 121,168
Bio Metabolize(x3)
Zeni: 2,003
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Tag: @koramund
OOC Name: Saiyan, Namekian, Human
Posts: 694
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Post by Koramund on Jan 1, 2015 15:30:49 GMT
I believe we should just go by word-count, for that way every mod can do training that much more easily, plus this would give more rewards and desire to be more descriptive. Like Zefonse's example here is my own:
"Koramund grabbed his foe, stretching his arms and smashing the android around to a pulp." - 15 words "Koramund roared in great primal rage, gripping his foe and crushing the metal inside it's body, while stretching his white arms, smashing and denting the brutally mauled Android to a pulp." - 31 Words
So the more descriptive you are, the more words you do. So if you already have large quality in your posts, you should be hitting these high numbers already, so I think it makes everything easier, and in general will be more beneficial. However, if we have an issue about quality, how about we add a small limit like "150+" words or something like that?
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Kadbra
Rising Soul
PL: 23,827; Demonic Will (x3): 71,481 Makyo (x8) 190,616; Items: Heavy Weights (3,144.5 | 9,433.5 | 25,156); One-Use Space Pod; Black Great Sword; Senzu Bean 1; Zeni: 404
Tag: @kadbra
Posts: 106
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Post by Kadbra on Jan 1, 2015 19:17:21 GMT
I think this is the worst idea ever, period. Quality is extremely important for RPing, and people should be rewarded for it! Without considering it for grades, you'll easily be the strongest simply by spamming shoddily made, quick posts/threads all the time. Wait-times on checks of threads are easily the smaller of two evils in this case.
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Zefonse
Newcomer
PL: 13,052; Bio-Metabolise (x3 current): (Not Available yet) Items: Sword, 1-Use space pod Zeni: 500
Tag: @zefonse
OOC Name: Saiyan, Namekian, Human
Posts: 40
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Post by Zefonse on Jan 1, 2015 19:32:21 GMT
People who place effort into there work, shouldn't be treated like minimal wage workers. Such I post at a snail paste, and suddenly only get paid as much as the person making a bunch of knock off posts to get cheap power ups. Story, context, effort should be rewarded. Hard work for all need's time and effort to be graded right.
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Jan 1, 2015 19:49:26 GMT
When it comes down to it, if the mechanics can't be sustained due to time constraints then no matter how good they are it won't work.
As Scargot has said there are other solutions, I would rather see more staff added instead of ditching quality grading. As it is right now I can definitely see ditching it being beneficial to overall site health, which is a greater good than individual rewards.
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Jan 1, 2015 20:51:33 GMT
learnasyouwrite.com/5-ways-to-increase-your-novels-word-count/This is one of the reasons I don't know if it is really necessary. I believe a quality post is already naturally lengthier. Quality breeds more quantity. Every single "increase word count" guide out there is going to tell you to add, add, add. It is true that someone could write 5,000 words of utter crap. No dialog with short boring sentence after short boring sentence in the wrong tense. Now imagine if they refined it, and made it great. That would almost certainly add more words to it. @zef I don't necessarily agree that a long post is better in group RPs. It is more or less an accepted form of god moding, as are any posts that span more than 2-5 secounds in time (in my opinion). This person basically summed up my feelings on the matter quite well. worldofroleplay.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-disease-of-long-posts.htmlI enjoy a good solo writing, but I believe that being concise is more important when you are playing with someone else. My biggest pet peeve is when 5-6 lines of dialog are thrown at me in a single post, because it means my characters reactions to each thing said didn't matter. It totally ruins immersion, I want to interact with someone action for action.
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Zefonse
Newcomer
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Post by Zefonse on Jan 1, 2015 21:19:22 GMT
@zef I don't necessarily agree that a long post is better in group RPs. It is more or less an accepted form of god moding, as are any posts that span more than 2-5 secounds in time (in my opinion). This person basically summed up my feelings on the matter quite well. worldofroleplay.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-disease-of-long-posts.htmlI enjoy a good solo writing, but I believe that being concise is more important when you are playing with someone else. My biggest pet peeve is when 5-6 lines of dialog are thrown at me in a single post, because it means my characters reactions to each thing said didn't matter. It totally ruins immersion, I want to interact with someone action for action. And thus where you went off. Long post are not a example or accepeted form of god modding. A person who writes a good lenghly post might went into detail on how there attack works, how it factors, how it feels, and how it look's. Anyone can do a short sen saying something simple as a energy ball attack. "I threw a energy ball" compared to " He readied an attack, by wildly spinning Ki inside the palm and compressing it to a high density single orb, then that one orb which is then surrounded by three smaller orbs. In a similar manner to moons around a planet. When coming into contact with an object, the disordered rotations of the individual orb's, created by the central and smaller ones spinning in different directions, interact with each other to form a massive and turbulent cone-shaped vortex made completely of Ki. He hoped this attack would at least reach the target, however he knew, even somethingas simple as another Ki blast hitting it would set this off.
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Jan 1, 2015 21:32:44 GMT
@zef I don't necessarily agree that a long post is better in group RPs. It is more or less an accepted form of god moding, as are any posts that span more than 2-5 secounds in time (in my opinion). This person basically summed up my feelings on the matter quite well. worldofroleplay.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-disease-of-long-posts.htmlI enjoy a good solo writing, but I believe that being concise is more important when you are playing with someone else. My biggest pet peeve is when 5-6 lines of dialog are thrown at me in a single post, because it means my characters reactions to each thing said didn't matter. It totally ruins immersion, I want to interact with someone action for action. And thus where you went off. Long post are not a example or accepeted form of god modding. A person who writes a good lenghly post might went into detail on how there attack works, how it factors, how it feels, and how it look's. Anyone can do a short sen saying something simple as a energy ball attack. "I threw a energy ball" compared to " He readied an attack, by wildly spinning Ki inside the palm and compressing it to a high density single orb, then that one orb which is then surrounded by three smaller orbs. In a similar manner to moons around a planet. When coming into contact with an object, the disordered rotations of the individual orb's, created by the central and smaller ones spinning in different directions, interact with each other to form a massive and turbulent cone-shaped vortex made completely of Ki. He hoped this attack would at least reach the target, however he knew, even somethingas simple as another Ki blast hitting it would set this off. That is actually meaningful description though, I am not praising the use of one liners. It becomes god moding to me when a player is taking more than an action or two. I believe strongly in having one reaction and one action (maybe two) in posts with others. With some descriptive meat about what is going on around the scene. When a post denies or short changes someones ability to interact is where it annoys me. Often times a long post will have so many actions and dialog in it that you just end up filing in the blanks in a manner that it won't ruin the other players post. The biggest culprit is crazy amounts of dialog with each post, because conversations does not work that way.
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Post by Hinawa on Jan 1, 2015 21:46:31 GMT
Conversations DO work that way in fiction, especially Dragon Ball. Remember how Goku and Frieza had 'five minutes' before Namek blew up? Then continued talking a bunch? We're RPing fan characters for the universe of a shonen series, so we follow the logic of that series.
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Jan 1, 2015 22:03:01 GMT
They aren't having one sided list conversations, they each say things and exchange dialog. They aren't saying 10-15 lines of dialog between one another before the other speaks. The longest speech is when frieza is explaining the five minutes, but it doesn't go anywhere near what some do in their long posts; he is saying one concise thing before Goku responds to him. If you respond i'll PM you alright? I don't wanna derail anything. www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTNG7Ax3Si4link
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Koramund
Archived
PL: 121,168
Bio Metabolize(x3)
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Post by Koramund on Jan 1, 2015 22:12:37 GMT
Zefonse I think already proved a way of how good detailed posts increase the WC count. If he turned a single sentence into more then three, working with only 5 words, is that not proving ways to increase WC? Quality ---> Detail ---> Word count, all of them equal the next.
But something that could help is this: What are the percentages now of how much everything is worth? If we know that, then we have something to base it off of, but now it is just personal opinions without many facts to drive it.
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Jan 1, 2015 23:41:39 GMT
I'l be honest. I looked at your posts and I'm wondering if you guys are saying: Yes, keep the quality portion, or no.
Me, I'm saying keep the system. We work with a 1 for 1 ratio, it'll be too difficult to manage everyone. The forum's system becomes a posting grind for power level, readily discarding what was once an impressive compilation of story-telling from each last one of us. We won't get to see what makes certain warriors different than another, regardless of race and background. Writing a martial arts character out, you should be able to show your character's style.
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Jan 2, 2015 0:30:04 GMT
Basically I am saying there are benefits to both keeping it and not keeping it. It isn't going to be an easy thing to vote on. Increased speed and ease is a want, but at the same time it would be sad to lose out on quality. The rest was just a tangent I got off on how quality should be defined, my bad lol.
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