Nicolas Mclendon
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The Hero of the Cosmos: CAPTAIN NOVA!
PL: 145,482
Intense Struggle (x3); X-Factor (x6); Amazing Captain Nova (x16)
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Tag: @nicolas
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Post by Nicolas Mclendon on Sept 24, 2015 0:22:13 GMT
Destructo Disc can do that already and it doesn't have the 'once per thread' restriction. You might not think your idea is overly complex but Habana and I are having a hard time deciphering what you're even suggesting some of the time. I don't think simplifying it into what we could realistically see as a special is a bad thing. I get that you want Demons to be more appealing to play but going over the top complex isn't the answer. Keep it simple I say
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Sept 30, 2015 19:34:04 GMT
Alright, so from my understanding, we've got 3 ideas that we can vote on that can be brought into focus. Before I label them, allow me to get in the idea for the Demonic Bargain/Support section's abilities (Keep in mind, you can only choose ONE format, so choose wisely)... Ah, and one other thing, as this would make this a very useful thing, as Demonic abilities are not normally known, I feel it'd be fair to have the instigation that these Demonic Techniques aren't known by others except by other Demons, for knowledge of these arts are secret. Now, moving on to this section:
1) Demon's Gift of Life (Effectively, Demonic Healing): The Demon's version of healing. It is said that this version of Healing is the Demon's means of controlling someone, and back in the days of old, it was once capable of being maintained as long as the Demon wanted. However, power split amongst the population has caused the power to diminish.
A Demon with this Bargain ability may heal a target to up to 99% of the target's injuries back to full (so long as they are within 80%), and even restoring missing limbs or filling holes. However, this healing is only superficial and lasts for 3 turns. A person who proceeds to be healed by a Senzu bean or a high end Healing Tank may be able to survive the wounds, their limbs recovered, but that is only if the Demon has a alerted them of this drastic side effect.
2) Power above others (Ki Empower-basis): A spell that a Demon uses to empower someone greatly. By sacrificing 20% of their current power level, the Demon increases the power of someone they bestow by the same amount. This lasts for 3 turns and gets added to a person's power level. If, for some reason, the one being bestowed this power decides to turn on the Demon, the Demon can return the power back to himself, to instigate whatever punishment the Demon feels fit on the person. For all intents and purposes, think of this as a Superior Ki Empower technique that does not go away after the first attack used, upon receiving this boost of power. For example:
A Demon of 200,000; in their destruction King form (which is 3,600,000), decides to give a measly unmastered Super saiyan of 120,000 (that's 2,400,000 for the soon to be transformed Super Saiyan) 20% of his power level. The Super Saiyan's currently in base form, so that means their power level is going to shoot up by 720,000, with the demon dropping by said amount. The power is overwhelming, so they decide to transform. The 720,000 gets added to the 2,400,000 power level, for a new total of 3,120,000 power level. This new power level can be used in Ki attacks and overall fighting power in the saiyan.
So, when I get back from work, I'll compile everything together and, if we're all in agreeance on these technique ideas or feel we don't need to change, I'll develop a thread to actually vote on this. Ok?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 4:41:04 GMT
I'm definitely OK with these kind of abilities - however, more so the healing one or the one that provides a boost to the 200,000PL demon.
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Queen Habana
Moderator
Queen of the Evil Space Monkey People Special Item: GPW Universal Championship Belt
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Dark Power(x4); M.SSj(x14); U.SSj(x18/12), SSJ2 (x27)
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Tag: @habana
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Post by Queen Habana on Oct 4, 2015 4:54:39 GMT
Arent all of these a but -much- compared to what the other races do? No other races gets this wide a variety of full powered options, the only races that do get a wider varity of options are Hybrids and BioAndroids, Bio-Android are pretty much entirely designed around 'loloptions' and Hybrids have weaker versions of existing racials as there only options. I still support Nic's idea.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 5:27:16 GMT
Hmmm, thinking about it (and being less greedy about it too) it would be a good idea to limit them more.
No matter how OP I would WANT them to be >3<
EDIT: Was just informed hybrids don't get these skills lol Dern~
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Oct 4, 2015 5:36:45 GMT
Ok guys! Here's the current options:
1) Pieter's Demonic Skill: Renamed to Demon Magic and, at the beginning of character creation, a Demon player creates 3 abilities under the special category that covers Offense, Defense, and Support. Offense and Defense abilities operate with the ability to charge at the rate of an MP3 technique (100% pl), for 3 KP, that, upon release of the charge, the technique's power is increased by an additional base PLx4. In addition to this, should the demon be in tier transformations 2 or higher, this number increases by 1 per tier, with an additional base PLx4 in the final tier for a total of base PLx8 that gets added onto to the technique charge! As for the Support portion, the Demon is able to choose an enhanced support ability that comes with a temporary cost, but still uses 3 KP. At the cost of this system, Demons would receive a nerf to their technique slot growth, putting them at 7000 power level for a new tech slot instead of the standard 6000 power level.
In relation to this, Demon Hybrids would suffer a 500 Power Level Penalty and would... Well, I'm not really sure what to do for them here. Give them 3 techniques? Give them a 'nerfed' Demon equation? Not sure exactly, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
2) Nicolas's idea: We do a simple strategy of giving them an instantaneous x4 attack that multiplies the current state of power. For instance, demon is at 400k power level and transforms to Makaioshin, putting him at 16 million power level. They use their demonic power, bringing forth a hefty 64 million in a 1 round attack for 3 KP.
In relation to half demons, this would mean they can fire an instant x2 attack, and if we are going by the guidelines of a Hybrid in ultimate potential that has a base pl of 500k power level, their current power level would be 22.5mil before the attack and the pl of the attack, upon usage, would be x2 that (45 million). If we took a demon at the same power level and put them into highest tier, they'd be at 80 milion... That's a drastic number. Even dialing it back a multiplier would mean that someone's about to get ruined unless they've got a SU3 dodge skill.
Both ideas are actually fundamental, but I must admit, they both are in lack of balance still so far, even after this much discussion on it. So do any others have a thought on this?
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Oct 4, 2015 5:39:26 GMT
Also, keep in mind: Still in discussion zone. Just getting things whipped into shape, so if anyone is confused by this, they can have a shorter 'Clip Notes' version of the ideas being presented that I found to be most agreeable so far or most discussed.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 6:04:35 GMT
Ah, so there is a hybrid version of this in mind? Alrighty.
That in mind, I think that the technique at the higher levels should be given a cap after a certain PL. As you said it's a huge number otherwise but I think there should be a big drawback if a cap can't be implemented. For instance, the technique could either be dodge-able OR the act of using a technique at the highest tier could cripple or kill the user.
At x2 it may not kill the user but at x4 - it'd make sense that it would go beyond the realm of their power to control.
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Zod
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Post by Zod on Oct 4, 2015 6:10:53 GMT
the thing I've always found most fun about demons is the extras that come with their transformations besides the multiplier. e.g: spiked tails, elemental affinity, immunity to physical attacks, and access to negative energy or dark ki. Sure, giving them an ubber move would be cool, but wouldn't making their supports work mechanically be better? Their reinforced hide allows them to receive ____ amount additional damage before dying. Using access to negative energy, they receive double charges for each turn spent on all N1 attacks (same turn would be 33% 1 turn charging would be 99% 2 turns charging would be 165% and it'd only work with N1s) This way you could respect a demon's desire to be a demon without granting them a 1 turn, 1 shot kill maneuver.
I probably didn't describe that well since I'm half out of it now but basically... turn the demon flavor into something mechanically possible
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Post by President Bao on Oct 4, 2015 12:08:59 GMT
Saw that you were requesting some more input so quickly tried to piece together response:
Demonic skill is an entirely custom ability that operates at a relative effectiveness of x4. (and is additive with other multipliers, though not the makyo form) This doesn't mean it's just an attack that deals x4 damage, it means it that mechanically it can have functionality worth the equivalent of a x4 attack... People in the past have use this to create attacks, minions, support abilities - a special by it's definition is a unique ability and leaving it open is more fun.
the proposal I see in your last post Pieter is insanity. O.o You do realise what a x8 attack is, right? You're talking a multiplicative value. I would propose that perhaps you should play out a mock battle with this in effect for you to see how it works. It is also so unnecessarily complex >.>
I'm not adverse to the idea of demons being able to develop their special ability further as they progress, as I concept I think that is good and can make for a satisfying dynamic[I use to encourage demons to do so by flavouring their normal techniques to tie in to the 'theme' of their special, but the proposed method for that currently doesn't hit the mark, nor did concepts I had previously drafted to this effect(so unfortunately I don't have a ready-baked answer on how best to achieve such, handling it through flavour or creating added utility without added power is probably a better approach).
Point blank just going to say though - Demonic skill should stay as is, it's flexibility allows people to create their own cool ability which covers the whole range of demonic canon characteristics (from Garlic jrs dead zone, Babidis mind control, Hirundegarns dark eye, Jenembas bunkai teleport, king Piccolos pokopen, Devilmans devilmite beam.) while remaining easy to understand/simple and balanced to be competitive throughout the whole game.
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Oct 5, 2015 4:47:05 GMT
... Wow... You're kidding me Bao. You realize I've been making up examples this entire thread, yes?
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Nicolas Mclendon
Moderator
The Hero of the Cosmos: CAPTAIN NOVA!
PL: 145,482
Intense Struggle (x3); X-Factor (x6); Amazing Captain Nova (x16)
Zeni: 2336
Tag: @nicolas
OOC Name: Nicolas
Posts: 1,010
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Post by Nicolas Mclendon on Oct 5, 2015 5:48:56 GMT
Saw that you were requesting some more input so quickly tried to piece together response: Demonic skill is an entirely custom ability that operates at a relative effectiveness of x4. (and is additive with other multipliers, though not the makyo form) This doesn't mean it's just an attack that deals x4 damage, it means it that mechanically it can have functionality worth the equivalent of a x4 attack... People in the past have use this to create attacks, minions, support abilities - a special by it's definition is a unique ability and leaving it open is more fun. the proposal I see in your last post Pieter is insanity. O.o You do realise what a x8 attack is, right? You're talking a multiplicative value. I would propose that perhaps you should play out a mock battle with this in effect for you to see how it works. It is also so unnecessarily complex >.> I'm not adverse to the idea of demons being able to develop their special ability further as they progress, as I concept I think that is good and can make for a satisfying dynamic[I use to encourage demons to do so by flavouring their normal techniques to tie in to the 'theme' of their special, but the proposed method for that currently doesn't hit the mark, nor did concepts I had previously drafted to this effect(so unfortunately I don't have a ready-baked answer on how best to achieve such, handling it through flavour or creating added utility without added power is probably a better approach). Point blank just going to say though - Demonic skill should stay as is, it's flexibility allows people to create their own cool ability which covers the whole range of demonic canon characteristics (from Garlic jrs dead zone, Babidis mind control, Hirundegarns dark eye, Jenembas bunkai teleport, king Piccolos pokopen, Devilmans devilmite beam.) while remaining easy to understand/simple and balanced to be competitive throughout the whole game. Right now Demon skill is solely a x4 attack only and nothing more, it used to be a free special but that's changed In my post I suggested cutting the numbers back to 300% and 166% for hybrids these are more fair numbers and given the downside (It can only be used once per thread) I think it deserves that bang for your buck while still being avoidable you know what I mean? Demons should be scary if they have full KP it should be their ace in the hole. I still haven't had time to come up with a potential support or defense variant 'paths' that I suggested so you'll have to give me a little time on that.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 6:05:19 GMT
I like Nic's Idea seeing it explained like that =X
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Nicolas Mclendon
Moderator
The Hero of the Cosmos: CAPTAIN NOVA!
PL: 145,482
Intense Struggle (x3); X-Factor (x6); Amazing Captain Nova (x16)
Zeni: 2336
Tag: @nicolas
OOC Name: Nicolas
Posts: 1,010
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Post by Nicolas Mclendon on Oct 12, 2015 20:55:35 GMT
H'okay so I had some time to mull it over and here's what I came up with: Basically I was thinking that during character creation you'd get to pick a 'bonus' for your demon inspired/based on the "Three Poisons" of Buddhism. Already made Demons would get the opportunity to change their demonic skill to one of these new ones if they desired.
Wrath Demons of the 'Wrath' Category are masters of destruction. Using their fury they can unleash a torrent of energy once per battle to overwhelm their foes. - Once per thread you can use an uncharagble offensive attack that hits for 300% of your power level
Narcissism Demons of the 'Narcissism' Category are so in love with themselves that they've created an ability to help them stay alive for even the most dire of times. - Once per thread you can create a barrier that operates at 100% your PL. This barrier can be charged before it's released to make it more potent. This barrier also heals the user when released but due to the narcissistic nature of the move it only heals and protects the user
Greed Demons that represent the 'Greed' Category are known for their undying lust for power. As such, they've devoted themselves to attaining as much power from the Star of Makyo as possible to make them as powerful as they can be. - +2 modifier to all transformations when the Makyo Star is out
I initially was talking with Vi-Poi on ways to make these moves work for hybrids but we came to the conclusion that currently with the higher transformation modifiers and the fact that they'd also be able to attain some bonuses from their other parent this would make hybrids waaayyyy more powerful than full demons. Full Demon's bottom tier endgame is really suckish so I think that's enough of a justification that they get the cool moves
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 0:47:46 GMT
As disappointed as I am that hybrids get nothing with this, it does mean well. However, I'll visit that myself another time...
For full blooded demons, I think that this is good but the difference between one instance 300% skill and having an extra +2 to a trans modifier seems a little crazy compared to getting a SU3 Healy barrier.
That works once.
As it appears, they seem pretty scaled in terms of power like this:
+2 to trans > 300% single attack > single Healy barrier.
I think I can guess who will choose what everytime lol
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