Koramund
Archived
PL: 121,168
Bio Metabolize(x3)
Zeni: 2,003
Shoki: 7,708
Tag: @koramund
OOC Name: Saiyan, Namekian, Human
Posts: 694
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Post by Koramund on Apr 21, 2015 12:57:35 GMT
I would like to request that there is a 2nd option instead of just within 20,000 power level, that if you have "Ki Suppression" and are the higher power level, you can lower your PL to whatever is required.
Also, what about Bio-Androids? They really do not have a dominant geneotype/species, and they are technically a more diluted hybrid, so how would they work?
Almost done, how would a shapeshifter work in this situation like myself? I can take up the physical aspects of Namekians, Arcosians, Humans, etc, but not any gameplay mechanics. So mixed wit the previous one of bios being 3 species, how would my strange situation work out?
Finally, how are techniques handled? In the original manga Vegito learned the Spirit Sword instantly by fusing (I think there were others but I am not sure) And Gogeta Starlight Breaker (the move he used to kill Janemba) so how would techniques be handled?
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Post by sake on Apr 22, 2015 1:21:12 GMT
Guess i'll add my two cents in on this. Addressing the concerns with bio-androids first since I play one.
If the bio-android is human or saiyan based and has that appearance then there shouldn't be too much of a problem. But as for other instances i'm not sure how that could work.
As for techniques Vegito being a unique being made of two would know attacks that the two parts didn't. Such as the Spirit Sword, and the Split Finger Shot. As well as being able to know moves from the two parts. Big Bang Attack, Kamehameha. And as well as being able two create moves that are derived from the two parts such as Final Kamehameha. This of course was through potara.
The fusion dance itself I believe worked on a majorly different style. Gogeta and SSJ4 Gogeta seemed to have their own unique moves made of combination or all new. Starlight Breaker, Big Bang Kamehameha. Even still this form knows moves from the two parts.
So my thoughts would be the two people get together to do one of those two options. 1. Make one or two new abilities unique to that being only and add one move each from the parts. 2. Make unique moves to the new being that is a combination of skills from the two parts or a completely original set.
There could be more options but that's my two cents on it.
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Post by Hyoza on Apr 22, 2015 8:42:01 GMT
While I understand the appeal of new techniques for fused characters, it does seem like a lot of extra complexity. All their new techs would have to be approved and so on. I think it would just be easier if they had access to all techniques their fusees had.
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Mayze
Moderator
PL: 250,469
Super Saiyan(x12) MSSJ(x15)
Zeni: 849
Shoki: 2,965
Tag: @gagelange10
OOC Name: Gage
Posts: 1,232
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Post by Mayze on May 1, 2015 1:07:21 GMT
Well, I think I'm going to start a poll. Anyone want to help?
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Mayze
Moderator
PL: 250,469
Super Saiyan(x12) MSSJ(x15)
Zeni: 849
Shoki: 2,965
Tag: @gagelange10
OOC Name: Gage
Posts: 1,232
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Post by Mayze on May 14, 2015 2:12:21 GMT
Can someone make a poll about this? I won't because I'll fail at it.
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Post by Kaula on Jun 27, 2015 5:52:53 GMT
Before I go on, I want to say this. If you people insist on we making this super OP, just be aware that it will never be approved and then it'll likely become a forbidden tech; like Instant Transition and Body Swap. Just keep that in mind.
Alright, so this has been talked about a lot. Like.. A lot. I talked to Zucceta about it a lot. Talked to Tariph about it some. Talked to some other members about it. And I think I have come up with an idea that will make everyone happy.
First up, the requirements: - Within 1.5 feet of each other in height.
- Must be near the same species, meaning a Saiyan and Saiyan. Or a Saiyan and Saiyan hybrid. Or a hybrid of similar races but the transformations are dependent on the dominate race, meaning a Saiyan + Saiyan/Human hybrid means Saiyan but a Human + Saiyan/Human hybrid means human.
Example 1: Kaula and Zucceta fuse into Zuccula for some insane reason. The dominate species is Saiyan so they use the Saiyan transformations.
Example 2: Kaula and Bing(because I can't think of any other human right now) fuse into Baula in some ungodly way. The dominate species is human, so they use the human transformations.
Example 3: Kaula and Tariph fuse into Tarla. Since they are both human/saiyan hybrids, they can choose which species that would be dominate (and will likely have to stick with that choice from then on) for transformations.
Example 4: Kaula and Jarvis fuse into Kauvis. Kaula is a Human/Saiyan hybrid, Jarvis is a Brenchian/Saiyan hybrid. Dominate is Saiyan so Saiyan Transformations.
- The lower person must be within the 60% of the higher person. Meaning if the higher person is 100,000 PL, the lower person neads to be at least 60,000 PL.
Up next, the Mechanics: - You take the higher person's PL and add half of the lower person's PL to that.
- Fusion can last the whole thread.
- If you meet the power level requirements for the nest transformation, the fused character auto-unlocks them and can use them at will.
Any thoughts, comments, concerns? Also I totally am thinking I should maybe be the one to teach it so I can take up the canon sword school founded by Trunks and Goten.
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Post by Zexama on Jun 27, 2015 7:18:31 GMT
Would shapeshifting give the affect of being within the same height or no?
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Post by Kaula on Jun 27, 2015 10:30:15 GMT
Would shapeshifting give the affect of being within the same height or no? I'm not sure. If you could make yourself taller; I could see it working.
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Post by Kayle on Jun 27, 2015 20:19:01 GMT
So, I've got a question for Kaula's idea. Why only half the PL of the lower person is added? Is this a way to intentionally nerf it so as to make it not as powerful? I remember reading that simply adding the two power levels together wasn't enough to match it canon wise. I mean fusion shouldn't be something used for every fight anyway, it should be something used to take on a vastly more powerful opponent. Such as if Kayle were to fight you Kaula. He would be vastly outmatched and have to fuse to have any hope of winning. If we did only half the lower persons PL, then his partner would 1) have to be more powerful and 2) have to be around 80,000 PL, which is enough to face you on directly without fusing. Also, if Kayle was the more powerful on, there would be no way to catch up. And we are only like 40-50k difference base PL wise. Hell, if Kayle fused with someone of equal power, and only got half he would only be around 60k PL, and he could already fight someone with 60k PL pretty reasonably per the rules. Be tough, but doable.
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Post by Kaula on Jun 27, 2015 22:34:29 GMT
So, I've got a question for Kaula's idea. Why only half the PL of the lower person is added? Is this a way to intentionally nerf it so as to make it not as powerful? I remember reading that simply adding the two power levels together wasn't enough to match it canon wise. I mean fusion shouldn't be something used for every fight anyway, it should be something used to take on a vastly more powerful opponent. Such as if Kayle were to fight you Kaula. He would be vastly outmatched and have to fuse to have any hope of winning. If we did only half the lower persons PL, then his partner would 1) have to be more powerful and 2) have to be around 80,000 PL, which is enough to face you on directly without fusing. Also, if Kayle was the more powerful on, there would be no way to catch up. And we are only like 40-50k difference base PL wise. Hell, if Kayle fused with someone of equal power, and only got half he would only be around 60k PL, and he could already fight someone with 60k PL pretty reasonably per the rules. Be tough, but doable. True, as I said it actually needs a bit of work. But yes, it is made to nerf it. Why? Because canonly it's adding the two power levels and multiplying them by four, I believe. Maybe more. So you'd get absurd amounts of that. Everyone and their mom would want to do it on the site if we made it that OP, and our site would be nothing but people fusioning. When I initially approached Zucceta about trying to see if they would like my idea, you originally would have only added 10% of the lower PL but Zucceta suggested the 50% instead and said he could go with that. He actually gave me most of the mechanics there. But then again, if you have some other alternative to the combined PL, please tell me. I could see it being upped a little bit, but we really have to keep it simple. If it gets too OP, I doubt the staff will allow it.
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Post by Kayle on Jun 27, 2015 22:56:57 GMT
I'm assuming this is based on the fusion dance, and not potara. For fusion dance it was shown that both had to have it perfect to fuse properly. I'm working off of little sleep here, but I was thinking we could take that into account. Perhaps if only one person knew the dance, they would get what you describe, 100% of biggest PL plus 50% of the lower, and if both know it, it could be just add them together? That in and of itself is a huge boost, no need for the x4 thing. I personally wouldn't see a problem with that. If someone used ki suppression to match the other, then the suppressed power, not the true power, would be added to make it fair in this situation I think.
The non perfect fusion could work for other things too, such as not meeting some of those requirements, but to do this both would have to have the dance. If only one did, and not all the reqs met, they would not be able to fuse.
Example: A saiyan and a human want to fuse, but they are not the same race or hybrids. By your rule above they would not be able to fuse. Maybe they can, but use the non perfect fusion rule, but only if BOTH of them know the dance. The transforms it followed would be chosen before hand by the participants and not be able to be changed after, as they would always fuse into said being.
Also, not everyone would be fusing, as it's still a special that would need to be taught. As I can see, its up to teachers to teach whom they want, and I don't see a lot of that happening.
Anyway, just quick musing on a tired mind. I'm sure it could use a lot of refinement.
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Post by Kaula on Jun 27, 2015 23:17:08 GMT
Just fixing something Before I go on, I want to say this. If you people insist on we making this super OP, just be aware that it will never be approved and then it'll likely become a forbidden tech; like Instant Transition and Body Swap. Just keep that in mind. Alright, so this has been talked about a lot. Like.. A lot. I talked to Zucceta about it a lot. Talked to Tariph about it some. Talked to some other members about it. And I think I have come up with an idea that will make everyone happy. First up, the requirements:- Within 1.5 feet of each other in height. - Must be near the same species, meaning a Saiyan and Saiyan. Or a Saiyan and Saiyan hybrid. Or a hybrid of similar races but the transformations are dependent on the dominate race, meaning a Saiyan + Saiyan/Human hybrid means Saiyan but a Human + Saiyan/Human hybrid means human. Example 1: Kaula and Zucceta fuse into Zuccula for some insane reason. The dominate species is Saiyan so they use the Saiyan transformations. Example 2: Kaula and Bing(because I can't think of any other human right now) fuse into Baula in some ungodly way. The dominate species is human, so they use the human transformations. Example 3: Kaula and Tariph fuse into Tarla. Since they are both human/saiyan hybrids, they can choose which species that would be dominate (and will likely have to stick with that choice from then on) for transformations. Example 4: Kaula and Jarvis fuse into Kauvis. Kaula is a Human/Saiyan hybrid, Jarvis is a Brenchian/Saiyan hybrid. Dominate is Saiyan so Saiyan Transformations. - The lower person must be within the 60% of the higher person. Meaning if the higher person is 100,000 PL, the lower person neads to be at least 60,000 PL. Up next, the Mechanics:- You take the higher person's PL and add half of the lower person's PL to that. Take the higher person's power level and multiply it by 1.5.- Fusion can last the whole thread. - If you meet the power level requirements for the nest transformation, the fused character auto-unlocks them and can use them at will. Any thoughts, comments, concerns? Also I totally am thinking I should maybe be the one to teach it so I can take up the canon sword school founded by Trunks and Goten.Also, just want to say, Kayle, that cross species would likely never work, sadly. :/ Too funky.
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Post by Kayle on Jun 27, 2015 23:24:31 GMT
Cross species could work though. With in reason, I mean I don't see an arcosian and a saiyan working out, but if the species can hybridize then they should be able to fuse. At least in my opinion. I mean if they can produce offspring that could reproduce themselves, and not be sterile like most hybrids IRL, then it just goes to show that they are compatible enough to fuse. It just makes sense to me.
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Post by Hyoza on Jul 2, 2015 15:49:57 GMT
The main issue with cross-species fusions is deciding what the hell species mechanics the resulting fused being would use.
I'm against ever implementing fusion, tbh. It's a huge mess to balance, and nobody will ever be satisfied with it.
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Post by Kayle on Jul 3, 2015 1:31:37 GMT
That's easy. You could do it one of two ways. 1) The fused being becomes a hybrid and follows the hybrid traits, and the two people fusing just decide which is dominate. This way the dominate species is just flavor and gives no real bonuses or negatives. This is the one that makes most sense to me, or 2) It becomes one of the two species that was used in fusion using the mechanics of that race, and again, the two fusing choose which is dominate. This seems less naturally balanced to me, and makes less sense, but still a viable option. You could also go the way that whomever had the higher PL was dominate, since the within 80% thing is offered to use, but I think this kinda spits in the face of the lore a little.
With either option, the dominate species chosen, whether only flavor for hybrid or full mechanics for full race, it couldn't be changed if the two were to fuse again. Once two fuse, the same being is always created and therefore the same race would be dominate.
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