Where does all their stuff go? I believe stealing items from someone when they die should be allowed, because to me it makes sense. I kill the guy, so I can just take the item right off their body, or find the key to their space ship, etc. I am bringing this up since I killed Orion a while ago, but Pipa in this thread reminded me of this, so I am making a thread about it. What does everybody think, should I able to gain Orion's stuff since he never made a will, and I drank his corpse? Or will the items just be scrapped?
Items in question specifically for my example: Pink Scouter, Upgraded Spaceship, x80 Gravity Chamber; 192 Zeni For example if I died - My foe gains Heavy Weights, 2 5,000PL Guards and 0 Zeni
This is completely unreasonable. If a character dies, they should not be penalised for something they have worked for in-game. This is extremely discouraging; you're dead, not an easy state to roleplay in, and items you have put much work into getting are stolen. Imagine if Koramund is killed and someone took your heavy weights. 4000z worth of item. It's just not fun.
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Hell no you can't take my items. That's not reasonable, there's NO IC reason for this and that's just being god damned greedy. Stop your illustrious amount of gluttony for possession and think of how idiotic and wasteful such a thing would be.
Then where does that Zeni go? If someone took my Heavy weights, I wouldn't BE Koramund any more because 1: DEAD, 2: There is no other world yet 3: Do I just take my heavy weights and Zeni into Heaven or Hfil? 4: For this case, lets be fair and say there is a difference between Heaven and sending your PL to someone. Would it be fair to say if someone rebirths into another character, and leaves their zeni behind and items, you can then take it?
And what penalization? You don't KEEP those items when you die, so it is better if somebody gets them, so their hard work to get those items stays. It would be more insulting if those items are destroyed, because all their work is then voided.
Example: I die, and I earned a Royal Ship, Heavy weights, and a X150 gravity chamber. It is instantly destroyed because I died and no body can use it. My example: Orion murders me, and my hard earned objects, the Royal Ship, Heavy weights, and the X150 gravity chamber and gained by him, and he can use them, and whoever kills him can use them. Unless he sells them, because ownership goes to the person.
I believe that is fair. However, Zucceta you also bring up the point of resurrection. Why would someone go into the afterworld and take their zeni with them? Would it make sense to keep the key or location of your ship in your pocket? I believe that if someone is dead, the killer has earned the right to take their stuff, flip GOKU did that! End of the Freiza saga, he killed Freiza and stole his space ship and his space pod! Did Freiza keep them? No, did the Ginyus keep their scouters? No.
However, maybe if someone is erased as a character / reincarnation / deletion of account, the killer can freely take the items, but when someone is killed, you require their OOC premission to take their stuff? The two months the person is dead in the after-life, they are subjected to the erased, Reincarnation and delete rule, but if they come back, the rule is removed from them. That sounds more fair to me I must admit.
Who is to say the character is even carrying around all of their posessions on their body? Maybe all of your Zeni is in a bank account, and last time I checked, a murderer does not get to steal someone's money from the bank account for killing the owner. Weights would obviously be fitted to the original owner and be completely useless to the killer unless refitted.
Also, in the series, strong characters that died did not become fluffy clouds in the afterlife, but retained their bodies and clothing from the time of death (at least whenever they died after Gokus first death, where Kami took care of that detail). And Weights are generally weighted clothing, so yes, it would go with them to Heaven or Hell or the Kaioshin Realm or whereever else they end up in the Next World. Buildings as well as starships can be minimized by capsule tech and be inside of their pockets, meaning as part of the clothing they get taken to the next world as well.
There you have a whole bunch of IC reasons why you can't steal someone's stuff. On the meta-level, stealing all of the items someone owns is just being greedy and unreasonable, since killing would give you a whole bunch of unfair advantages and put someone far behind before they can even start their training in the Next World.
My idea was to encourage death enabled PVP, but it definitely looks like it would have the opposite effect. It also isn't a good idea to bring up a topic tying your own self gain to it, for something like this even if it did pass I wouldn't think you would get a retroactive claim on his stuff because he had no way of knowing.
It was a sub bullet I hadn't thought all the way through to be honest. I had meant more along the lines of some small fraction of zeni and expendable items like senzu beans and scouters. At the end of the day this would just complicate the system, people would scramble to bank things and we would have to have some new bank system. If you want to emulate getting their items you could simply ask for zeni at the end of the thread and buy duplicates of those things.
Going to try and address every single one of these threads over this weekend.
In this case - Remember campers, stay nice, no need to be rude just because someone suggested something you don't like.
I agree with the common consensus that you should not be able to steal a players items, simply because it would be very disheartening and cause (OOC) conflicts between people who feel cheated by such an arrangement. People work hard to attain items, having died is already demerit enough, to lose their items would just be an extra layer of hitting them while they are down.
If this was not PvP it could work, but since your opponent is another person on the other side of that screen you have to be considerate of their game experience as well as yours. On the flip side, there is one possible consensus which may be fair - If we create an item which is a zeni safe, where you can store your money without worry, and then make it that up to half of any 'loose' zeni you have in your character's pocket could be taken, then muggings may be possible in saga/DE threads. Even then though, not entirely sold on the idea myself.
ICly of course, you could always spend your own zeni to buy equivalent items, and play it as if they were the stolen goods(if they agree). --- (1)
Last Edit: Jan 24, 2015 6:30:38 GMT by President Bao
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Jan 24, 2015 18:24:22 GMT
I'm not seeing a very open minded set up here. Let me bring it up like this:
1) Koramund's side of things: Yes, their clothes would, in fact, still be there. Items they're wearing would ALSO transfer over to Other World, simply because they have strong spirits. It's not invalid to say, "Yes, the items are here, with the Zeni. We know of their importance and should have the ability to make use of them."
Mind you, Ships, houses, or structures owned by said players WOULD still be owned by said players. Reason? Well, we're a far in the future set up. Advanced mechanisms prevent those with no permission to use said items, in addition to being indestructible (for all we know, the stuff that broke the Z Sword could have been discovered somewhere in our Verse of Dragon Ball).
2) The Opposition: ... Well, actually, I don't see any real opposition here. I mean, we've got the ability to make looting safe for both sides. I believe we even stated that the items are destroyable (If they're not in capsule form), in one discussion. Do we have that somewhere to confirm or deny this?
Anyway, if you've got weights on you and you're blasted with something so powerful, not even a cell of your being remains and you were wearing weights in the process, the weights are DEFINITELY gone. To be frank, I view this not as a question of, "Can we loot people," as it should be possible for someone to do that, but rather as a question of, "Can we access all items or some?"
Weights worn? Perfectly lootable, if they're not annihilated in the fight. Buildings and Ships? Fail-Safe protection from looting. Senzus, Weapons, and Clothes/Armor? Lootable, as well. Zeni= Fail-Safe protection. Heck, we can probably instate a 'Will' process that collects the buildings, ships, and zeni, if we really want to.
The opposition to looting is from a consideration of game experience rather than IC issues. Sure, you could plunder weights and the key to spaceship from a corpse; but I'm considering how the difficulty it took to first obtain these items. I don't think it is fair on the dead player, on top of the demerit of being dead, as Bao mentioned.
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