|
Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Sept 22, 2014 7:00:28 GMT
Dial it back to x10 and you got yourself a deal, bud!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 23:23:37 GMT
These guys are a-okay in my opinion, except there probably does need to be a time at which tail weakness takes less of an effect on a character.
Kojima, at the moment, what's listed under the Hybrids is actually decent considering that they are on equal level with humans at first glance, but they don't have to be with the X10 power up. I will tell you this the original notes that were made for them are mainly based off Half Saiyans as they are best known of actual hybrids in the series. I see your point and that is why under these notes there is an added Custom (?) section for at least one trait for them to have on top of this seemingly out of proportioned transformation. Even with this seemingly unbalanced feature, I can say that they get really powerful end game wise. Although, these notes will clearly change with this update.
Instead of a currency boost and extra Zeni humans should have something else entirely. Perhaps they should have a Hidden Potential Unlock trait. It's not technically a transformation in the series instead being a power boost for them. Like, maybe give them X% of power for visiting with and having a Namekian of the Dragon Clan unlock higher levels of power for them. If this isn't workable then maybe they should get extra PL for training with a master, much more so then a Saiyan or another character would because humans have a strange desire to go train with masters in the series to train for martial arts then Saiyans who usually seemed to beat each other up or train alone.
They are going to become Cyber Arcosians after the reconstruction surgery. What that does is essentially increase their power much more with a transformation then they would have if they used True/Royal power. It's kind of a pain, but I think that's why they get the extra PL boost to get to a point where they can do that. Although, I see a problem with it and that is that people may only want to play True/Royal powered transformations instead of Cyber Arcosians.
I'm not sure what to say about Androids. They do get permanent ki suppression unless someone's using a scouter or other mechanical tracking system, they have durability to up their transformation power by X1 in a fight, and they also have the ability to revive. Yet I think this can only occur once in a thread if the player pays Zeni for it as a second reconstruction doesn't seem possible from what I remember reading of the first post in here. Still, that X5 almost does make them as weak as humans when you consider that a good number of models of the RR army were fighting against Saiyan and humans and usually doing pretty well against them throughout most of the series from Android 8 to Android 17 & 18.
I'd comment more on the species but I'm out of time right now.
|
|
|
Post by Hyoza on Sept 25, 2014 1:40:00 GMT
Everyone is acting like the listed transformations are all the races will ever get. That is not the case. Also, stop whining about lower trans multipliers guys - almost all of them have been lowered to stop the numbers getting stupidly large in the later game. Now, on to my thoughts/recommendations:
Saiyans
I have no problems here. The tail thing actually makes more sense as a technique. Goku trained his tail to be immune way before he ever met Raditz, who still suffered this weakness despite a much higher PL. This is something that requires long and hard training to overcome, and a technique slot represents that better than an arbitrary PL requirement IMO.
Hybrids
Like Kojima, I would like to see something a bit more flavoured and less generic for hybrids. I'm aware that this would be a lot more work but right now hybrids basically just use saiyan or human transes and that is a little unsatisfying.
Humans
Here I have no issues. In fact I'm confused as to what anybody's problem is with this. They get the zeni bonus to help them out with regards to getting items to help them train early on, because they have the weakest and most unreliable transformation to start with. They can't even access it at will until 20k. Also mastered focus is not a new transformation, it's just representing the ability to access the first one at will rather than in desperation. They also have their extra techniques, which means they'll get powerful offensive techniques faster than their rivals, helping make up for lower overall PLs due to low trans multipliers.
Namekians
Personally I prefer Bao's proposal for regen to Koji's. It's simpler and just as effective IMO. I also am happy there is a division between Clans and their abilities, though it might be nice to see some Mazoku inclusion. This fits the lore and creates clear paths for character development. Dragon Clan are support characters, not direct combatants. Also would like to see, as Tao suggested, the Mystic Attack get a mention. It's a pretty iconic Namekian trait that players should be reminded of even if there is no actual mechanic.
Also Namekian fusion in the canon could not be undone by Dragon Balls or Buu absorption (which could undo supposedly permanent Potara fusion). If two characters fuse, the secondary one becomes a psychic passenger in thhe other's mind and that's it forever more.
Arcosians
Tails being stretchy and prehensile is worth a mention. The reconstruction could use some elaboration as to what exactly results from its use. I love the whole forms affecting PL gains thing, and would ask that it remain as Bao proposes. It introduces a mechanic that lorewise makes sense and forces Arcosians to use their most powerful forms only in dire need rather than whenever they get into a fight, lest they lose out badly on PL gains. I don't understand Koji's suggestion about suppressed forms having fewer techniques, as this ability is already basically a complete drawback for the race and lorewise there is no precedent for this. First and Final form Frieza could both use his most powerful attacks.
As for Durability, clarification is needed: is it an activated ability with limited uses or always on? It's an inherent aspect of their physiology so I don't see how it can be switched on and off, but we need some clarification either way. Still, a great idea that matches the canon Arcosian feats, such as Cooler being reduced to a chunk of a head and surviving.
Androids
Koji is being a little overdramatic methinks, probably because this one directly affects his character. But he raises some good points where I think a lot of people might be thinking the same as him. First off: Overdrive is more like a technique than a transformation in some ways. And it STACKS WITH OTHER TRANSES. This means when you start unlocking other forms Overdrive will be a bonus amount you can add on top. That said, I think recalibrating every time it is used is a bit too punsihing. Instead I would suggest a post limit for Overdrive, which can be exceeded. BUT if a player goes over the limit they have to recalibrate the ability due to having pushed their systems too far. It is the only trans Androids start with, and it should be a little easier to use.
As for Artificial Energy, I like the way it works. Androids are automatically immune to Ki sense, and if they take Ki Suppression as a technique, they should then become immune to Scouter tracking also (representing masking of radiation emissions or whatever the Scouters might home in on). Meaning they get free immunity to one of the two major tracking methods, and immunity to the second at the same cost as other races. That is fair.
Koji's reconstruction suggestion seems a bit much. High level players would not be able to afford it if it were calculated in such a way. A higher flat rate seems more fair. Say, 5k to rebuild.
Bio-Android
I don't see a problem with Bio-metabolise. It's an x3 trans, which is standard across a lot of races now, which can be bumped temporarily up either by absorbing players or spending tech slots. You can flavour it however you want so your character doesn't have to be literally sucking people up its tail. Seems fine. There will be later permanent transformations which will require absorptions and won't need to be maintained. I would suggest that absorbed characters simply be considered dead rather than trapped inside the bio android. That way absorbed characters aren't left doing nothing until somebody kills the bio android.
EDIT: Koji you seem to be misunderstanding the Arcosian forms thing. In True form they LOSE 50% PL gains, and only get the full 100 if they are in suppressed form. The loss is mitigated by using intermediary forms. They don't earn more than any other race would.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 2:08:41 GMT
So far as it has been raised, the problem with repairing has been spoken about several times through out this discussion , so I thought about something both parties could agree with. As it is, I'll state it is a big disadvantage to make them pay to repair this said transformation or technique. But at the same time, I believe it'll be like this till a certain Power level. I'd say at 20,000 pl or even 15,000 pl, An android can purchase an upgrade, similar to how humans can train to maintain their transformation. I believe androids can upgrade themselves, to handle the overdrive output. As android further along, have been seen to be damn near indestructible. I believe as a android first starts out, the parts they currently possess couldn't handle the stress overdrive causes. But at 15,000 or 20,000 pl they can purchase an upgrade, that allows them to use this without worry of damage.
Now I will say along with overdrive, even with an upgrade, they can't continuously run it. So I'd say overdrive would last them about 4 post to start with, till they master it. Going after 4 post will damage it. Once they master this said tech, or upgrade to suffice it, The transformation can be used for 8 post without breaking any parts within the android. And this effect won't carry over to new fights, Simply because their gears would have time to cool down, and readjust themselves.
|
|
|
Post by President Bao on Sept 28, 2014 15:04:17 GMT
Well, sorry about the delay, as promised here's the responses (edit: except one, see note at bottom) ; Saiyans• Tail Weakness is the only actual change that I’m noticing here and overall it seems like a pretty good one honestly. I do feel having to use a tech slot to get rid of the weakness though isn’t a good idea, I think personally after a set Power Level (Around 20,000 or so like Vegeta was) it should be able to be taken away since that’s about what Vegeta and Nappa were and neither of them were phased. Saiyans These guys are a-okay in my opinion, except there probably does need to be a time at which tail weakness takes less of an effect on a character. SaiyansI have no problems here. The tail thing actually makes more sense as a technique. Goku trained his tail to be immune way before he ever met Raditz, who still suffered this weakness despite a much higher PL. This is something that requires long and hard training to overcome, and a technique slot represents that better than an arbitrary PL requirement IMO. As Hyoza noted, the indication is that as elites Nappa and Vegeta trained the weakness out of their tail. Goku did a similar thing when he was younger too (before losing it permanently before adulthood). If you don't want to have to use a technique slot, then you can chose to have the tail removed which will also circumvent that weakness. Otherwise, it's meant to be a trade-off, you have to specifically address this racial weakness if you want to overcome it rather than it being an automatic thing. Hybrids • I feel like their potential transformations should be based off what races they’re a “hybrid” of. Such as the Human/Saiyan, Oozaru or Latent Power. Kojima, at the moment, what's listed under the Hybrids is actually decent considering that they are on equal level with humans at first glance, but they don't have to be with the X10 power up. I will tell you this the original notes that were made for them are mainly based off Half Saiyans as they are best known of actual hybrids in the series.
I see your point and that is why under these notes there is an added Custom (?) section for at least one trait for them to have on top of this seemingly out of proportioned transformation. Even with this seemingly unbalanced feature, I can say that they get really powerful end game wise. Although, these notes will clearly change with this update. HybridsLike Kojima, I would like to see something a bit more flavoured and less generic for hybrids. I'm aware that this would be a lot more work but right now hybrids basically just use saiyan or human transes and that is a little unsatisfying. In the same way that when someone makes an alien they follow a present multipliers and requirements but can flavour them to their races specifications (and chose their own racial traits), hybrids work in the same way. It would be impractical to make new transformations list for every permutation of every hybrid type, therefore hybridism is expressed through your racial characteristics and how your transformations are flavoured. (this also keeps balance more consistent, similarly again to the aforementioned aliens) They don't use saiyan or human trans(though their 'uncontrolled' one is mechanically equivalent to oozaru, much like Alien C's), they use hybrid trans's which is a 'race' in it's own right. To dispel possible confusions though - hybrids transformations *are* styled after their constituent races. So a half saiyan half human might have 'oozaru', but a half alien half human would not have 'oozaru' cause as noted that would make no sense XD. Humans • I like where they’re at currently but this patch helps… a little. I feel like when they’ve obtained “Mastered Focus” it should be bumped up to x4. • The Currency Savvy… I really don’t know about this personally, I feel like giving them the extra Zeni gained is a bit much. I feel it should be one or the other, not both. Instead of a currency boost and extra Zeni humans should have something else entirely.  Perhaps they should have a Hidden Potential Unlock trait. It's not technically a transformation in the series instead being a power boost for them. Like, maybe give them X% of power for visiting with and having a Namekian of the Dragon Clan unlock higher levels of power for them. If this isn't workable then maybe they should get extra PL for training with a master, much more so then a Saiyan or another character would because humans have a strange desire to go train with masters in the series to train for martial arts then Saiyans who usually seemed to beat each other up or train alone.
HumansHere I have no issues. In fact I'm confused as to what anybody's problem is with this. They get the zeni bonus to help them out with regards to getting items to help them train early on, because they have the weakest and most unreliable transformation to start with. They can't even access it at will until 20k. Also mastered focus is not a new transformation, it's just representing the ability to access the first one at will rather than in desperation. They also have their extra techniques, which means they'll get powerful offensive techniques faster than their rivals, helping make up for lower overall PLs due to low trans multipliers. Essentially what Hyoza has noted. It was based off canon where humans weren't all that strong, but seemed to have more tricks up their sleeve than most other races/enemies(for example, their ability to suppress or enhance their ki, or abilities like solar flare). The zeni as noted also ties in to the 'utility rather than raw power', dynamic they represent, while also giving non-combatants a little benefit. Small, but there. As for your stuff Oguma, unlocks are not race specific and are the forte of the corresponding master positions(eg. namekian guru) currently, so would be a little unusual. The master thing is an alright idea but I don't much see the need for it (on that topic, training with a master does give improved gains already, site patch will attribute these to the school they own) Namekian• I feel the start to gain each regeneration is a bit too high honestly. As seen with Piccolo he was able to regenerate his arm when they had a fight against Raditz. I feel the SPEED of their regeneration however should increase the stronger they get. So for an example; At 5,000 PL to regenerate their arm might take 4 posts of ‘concentrating’ whereas 20,000 regenerating their arm could come after just 1 and at 25,000 they could regenerate their arm instantly however they’d only be able to regenerate one limb per round so to speak. Or alternatively, they could be allowed to regenerate multiple limbs if they concentrated for an even longer period of time. So maybe 4 posts for 1 limb, but for 2 it’d take something like 7 or 8. • Namekian Fusion I’m a little interested on, If used does the one used for the fusion (The one not the base) lose that character forever or is there a way to “defuse” and gain that character back? And how many can they fuse with and how often? • For Mystical Skill is this limited ONLY to the Dragon Clansman? Or can other Namekians learn to use it as well? NamekiansPersonally I prefer Bao's proposal for regen to Koji's. It's simpler and just as effective IMO. I also am happy there is a division between Clans and their abilities, though it might be nice to see some Mazoku inclusion. This fits the lore and creates clear paths for character development. Dragon Clan are support characters, not direct combatants. Also would like to see, as Tao suggested, the Mystic Attack get a mention. It's a pretty iconic Namekian trait that players should be reminded of even if there is no actual mechanic. Also Namekian fusion in the canon could not be undone by Dragon Balls or Buu absorption (which could undo supposedly permanent Potara fusion). If two characters fuse, the secondary one becomes a psychic passenger in thhe other's mind and that's it forever more. Keep in mind 'limbs' is not a measurement we can bank with The proposed injury system is the mechanical backbone which defines regeneration's tangibility. Personally I feel your counter-proposal makes regeneration take too long - remember you are in the middle of a battle and your opponent is still likely to be attacking you, four posts or longer is a very large amount of time. As for fusion, as Hyoza noted in canon it was permanent with the one who acted as the 'base' living on while the one who fused is gone, their memories, power, part of their personality, etc. all having been merged into the other. (though I think hyoza may be mixing up his abridged lore with his canon lore with the whole 'psychic passenger' thing of course, I'm inclined to be flexible if people wanted to RP their fusion parter interjecting in their head, up to them I guess). The mystic skill for warrior clansmen is the 'great namek' transformation. For dragon clansmen it can be one of a few possible special skills, though the implication is that these are non-offense abilities. Mazoku clansmen count as demon race, and thus use the 'custom demon ability' (kinda like the mystic skill, except can be offensive too, and as noted is considered equivalent to plx4) As for mystic attack, it is technically a 'demonic' ability (thus why piccolo the 'demon' used it, as did other 'demons' like buu, jenemba, angila). In truth the reason I didn't include it so far is that I considered it more a technique that people could chose if they wanted rather than a specific racial trait. The goal has been to only list 'tangible' racial traits and move other stuff like 'has the most forms' or 'tends to wear really cool hats' into background info, so that is kinda where I planned to list extras like that. Arcosian• Reconstructive Surgery I’m a little confused on. Does this turn them into Bio-Androids? Or do they remain as arcosians? And if they become a Bio-Android do they get a different transformation? If they remain as an Arcosian can they still access their other transformations or do they get different ones or are they simply stuck in their current one forever? If they’re stuck in their current one then I’d say make them Bio-Androids or make a new transformation in this instance so they aren’t completely screwed. • “Difficult Control” seems pretty pointless to me honestly. It seems more like a “fluff filler” to explain why their previous forms gain more from training. I think that in their suppressed forms they should get access to fewer techs than their “True” form in exchange for this extra PL gain. They are going to become Cyber Arcosians after the reconstruction surgery. What that does is essentially increase their power much more with a transformation then they would have if they used True/Royal power. It's kind of a pain, but I think that's why they get the extra PL boost to get to a point where they can do that. Although, I see a problem with it and that is that people may only want to play True/Royal powered transformations instead of Cyber Arcosians. ArcosiansTails being stretchy and prehensile is worth a mention. The reconstruction could use some elaboration as to what exactly results from its use. I love the whole forms affecting PL gains thing, and would ask that it remain as Bao proposes. It introduces a mechanic that lorewise makes sense and forces Arcosians to use their most powerful forms only in dire need rather than whenever they get into a fight, lest they lose out badly on PL gains. I don't understand Koji's suggestion about suppressed forms having fewer techniques, as this ability is already basically a complete drawback for the race and lorewise there is no precedent for this. First and Final form Frieza could both use his most powerful attacks. As for Durability, clarification is needed: is it an activated ability with limited uses or always on? It's an inherent aspect of their physiology so I don't see how it can be switched on and off, but we need some clarification either way. Still, a great idea that matches the canon Arcosian feats, such as Cooler being reduced to a chunk of a head and surviving. EDIT: Koji you seem to be misunderstanding the Arcosian forms thing. In True form they LOSE 50% PL gains, and only get the full 100 if they are in suppressed form. The loss is mitigated by using intermediary forms. They don't earn more than any other race would. Reconstrutive Surgery is based off the scenario both Frieza and Cooler faced after their 'death'. Frieza came to earth as a Cyborg, while Cooler integrated with the core of the Big Gete Star (and began constructing meta-coolers). As noted, you may flavour your 'ressurection' however you ultimately desire, so if you wish to be 'cloned' back to life in an enhanced biological body then you're welcome to flavour it as such. Your race will essentially be changed to what I've nicknamed 'cybercosian', whose transformations multipliers/requirements at that 200,0000pl+ range are similar to androids(though not the same as). Alien type B also has the same ability. Cannot answer the question about if they remain as an arcosian as that falls under 'keeping future transformations secret', which is still being polled currently I'm not entirely sure how gaining access to less techniques in true would work, given the way techniques are acquired, but personally I find as a balance concept my proposal has a rather neat dynamic - if you go lording over people in the present and always use your true form to beat them into submission your growth will be reduced, allowing them to out-train you and eventually overcome your strength. Durability, for the gameplay here, is intended to be an 'activated' ability, just because having it always active (given the existing advantages the durability-wielding races have) would stack things a little too much, and I didn't want to have to nerf their other abilities. ICly it's your bodies natural ability to take a hit which allows you to brace against the damage, but like being punched in the same spot twice, the second time it hurts more As noted before with namekians, stretching tails (and even the 'survive in space' thing) would likely go in the background section instead abilities, as they are represented by someone making an attack technique out of it or is more RP flavour than a usable mechanical advantage. **I will save android for last as it is the hot button issue** Demons • How do they get the Makyo Star energy exactly? I’m seeing a distinct lack of information on this particular event as with the Saiyans eventually they can simply summon a false moon to transform. Similar to the moon, makyo star is a site-wide event when the aforementioned entity draws close to the earth. And I personally think like the artificial moon that there could well be an equivalent for demons. Bio-Android• I’m confused by this race completely… When they absorb someone why would their multiplier go down exactly? I feel unless they eject the person they absorbed it shouldn’t ever go down. Also, I feel that the amount the multiplier goes up from absorbing another PC should be determinate based off that characters own transformation, Whether they were in it or not, and their BASE power level. Also, if someone is absorbed is there a way of forcing this Bio-Android to eject that person like with Cell? And if so how is it done? Bio-AndroidI don't see a problem with Bio-metabolise. It's an x3 trans, which is standard across a lot of races now, which can be bumped temporarily up either by absorbing players or spending tech slots. You can flavour it however you want so your character doesn't have to be literally sucking people up its tail. Seems fine. There will be later permanent transformations which will require absorptions and won't need to be maintained. I would suggest that absorbed characters simply be considered dead rather than trapped inside the bio android. That way absorbed characters aren't left doing nothing until somebody kills the bio android. What Hyoza said. ----- I will have to post up the final response and the one you're most looking for tommorow(Androids!), as it's past one in the morning and I actually have to get up early for work since it's monday XD Thank you for your patience, and sorry I didn't get it completed today, I had other obligations I had to meet which prevented me from being able to and am really sorry.
|
|
|
Post by President Bao on Sept 30, 2014 4:22:59 GMT
and now, the grand finale in this mammoth of a post - ((I'd like to say I've been spending all this time making sure to answer extra well, but in truth I've just not had much chance to respond :/ )) Androids Oh boy where do I start here? • Overall these reworks royally fuck Androids. For starters their Overdrive. They take a MASSIVE nerf of x5 to their transformation and are made equal to Humans and that leads into the second massive problem: They’re being forced to PAY for their transformation… LITERALLY. If it stays as “PL OR Zeni” then it forces them to take Zeni which allows every other race to completely out scale them so fast that it’s better to completely forget they even have a transformation and just go raw PL training instead of ever using their transformation. Regardless of how low the Zeni cost might be its completely unfair to force a race to go down a certain path but no other race is forced into taking anything for their reward from threads. On top of this it also makes it so that their transformation is weakened more and more the longer they go without actually paying to have it “recalibrated” as it’s so aptly put and honestly it makes no sense. If that “Overdrive x3* 5,000 pl” thing is that they gain an extra x3 to their transformation every 5,000 PL that can help to even out this weakness and if that’s true I’d have no problem with it. However if it’s just x3 period then it’s completely worthless and would make me personally retire Kojima until I can make him a half saiyan if not delete him all together. edit - moved other quotes into next post. Okay now, I know this one is your real area of interest, so; - Their overdrive has changed to reflect its namesake/description and serves an entirely different purpose to it's 'predecessor', being a racial ability which stacks with other transformations they acquire. By stack I mean it adds to their mutiplier, and thus is a very powerful and unique capability, this is a crucial detail notably absent from any of your comments/criticisms bya . - Would it distress you further if I noted that androids technically have no starter transformation at all? Overdrive (as mentioned above) is technically a racial ability rather than an actual transformation. Androids have gone through a balance shift which justified the removal of their (excess) starter transformation. Cannot really further elaborate until we have our final tally on the corresponding poll, but they're less powerful on creation because this is not where they hit their stride. - Every single race has been given restrictions or costs on their starter trans usage, some harsher than androids and most not readily available like Overdrive is. It is also a misconception to assume using a transformation, at the very start of the game, should be the default action in battle, and if you refer to the other races you can see that deconstructing this has indeed been a specific emphasis. (Also remember that different races have different points where they hold the advantage and this is entirely by design.) - Paying zeni is not the spine-shattering progress-killer it is being made out to be XD other races pay with technique points or reduced gains or up-front restrictions which bar them from using their ability. Androids have a post-usage cost, because the point is not to be using this all the time - it's stated weakness was that it wears out the machinery cause you're pushing them above their limits, meaning when you activate it you should be going in with the mindset of 'winning this battle is worth the cost I'm intending to pay'(be that a full recal or a cheap one or none at all), if winning the battle is not worth your anticipated cost then no one is forcing you to use it ---- Afraid I've run out of time but rather than keeping this in my pm box(addressed to myself) for another day I'll post it up and you can perhaps respond with any comments given these new points. Obviously there a still a couple more suggestions and comments made which I'd like to answer respond to as promised, but lets keep this rolling forward.
|
|
|
Post by President Bao on Sept 30, 2014 12:25:19 GMT
Just a friendly notice - please avoid discouraging others from giving their input and being involved in a given discussion, that stands in opposition to the management system this place operates under and is not considered acceptable conduct. Even if you are unhappy with the tangent a discussion has taken, (and even if you are the instigator of said discussion), it is simply not how things are done here. You are ofcourse free to refrain from giving your input on a subject, that is a personal decision that someone would have to make for them self, though I'd assume it's not the most specifically productive way to get have concerns noted or to share your ideas. ---- Now I would like to take a moment to clarify - my responses are to explain proposed mechanics or given reason why particular options were presented by myself for this proposal, so I definitely don't want anyone to confuse my feedback with argument or dictation. I can only present/clarify the intention behind the proposals, the actual choice is made by the community(alongside any suggestions later on for tweeks and such). Indeed we are an iterative system where new suggestions and improvements are part of the evolutionary process, polishing each aspect rather than treating things as simply set in stone. • I feel the reconstruction cost is too low. For only 1,000 Zeni they can effectively be revived? Even in the DBZ world that’s WAY too low for all the parts that would need to be purchased because of the undoubtedly lost parts of being blown to shit and back. I think the price should be 1,000 zeni for every 2,000 PL they have. I'm not sure what to say about Androids.They do get permanent ki suppression unless someone's using a scouter or other mechanical tracking system, they have durability to up their transformation power by X1 in a fight, and they also have the ability to revive. Yet I think this can only occur once in a thread if the player pays Zeni for it as a second reconstruction doesn't seem possible from what I remember reading of the first post in here. Still, that X5 almost does make them as weak as humans when you consider that a good number of models of the RR army were fighting against Saiyan and humans and usually doing pretty well against them throughout most of the series from Android 8 to Android 17 & 18.
I'd comment more on the species but I'm out of time right now.
AndroidsKoji is being a little overdramatic methinks, probably because this one directly affects his character. But he raises some good points where I think a lot of people might be thinking the same as him. First off: Overdrive is more like a technique than a transformation in some ways. And it STACKS WITH OTHER TRANSES. This means when you start unlocking other forms Overdrive will be a bonus amount you can add on top. That said, I think recalibrating every time it is used is a bit too punsihing. Instead I would suggest a post limit for Overdrive, which can be exceeded. BUT if a player goes over the limit they have to recalibrate the ability due to having pushed their systems too far. It is the only trans Androids start with, and it should be a little easier to use. As for Artificial Energy, I like the way it works. Androids are automatically immune to Ki sense, and if they take Ki Suppression as a technique, they should then become immune to Scouter tracking also (representing masking of radiation emissions or whatever the Scouters might home in on). Meaning they get free immunity to one of the two major tracking methods, and immunity to the second at the same cost as other races. That is fair. Koji's reconstruction suggestion seems a bit much. High level players would not be able to afford it if it were calculated in such a way. A higher flat rate seems more fair. Say, 5k to rebuild. @oguma: Most of the androids in canon were not representative of what a newly created android character is They were examples of what androids are like later in their pl progression. But yes, as an android you are basically a tanky assassin - You're unsensable allowing you to hide and move around undetected, you've got durability meaning you can endure damage others cannot, you can over-charge your transformations giving you a powerful trump card when securing victory, and you can be repaired meaning you essentially can't die like other races do. Hyoza: As noted in my prior response, use of a transformation is not really meant to be the default incomparably superior option one takes when they enter a thread like it tends to be currently(atleast, not for the starter transformations), and (like durability) overdrive is intended to be a racial ability. Personally I try to avoid post-limit stuff, just cause I think it's an inelegant design philosophy. When coming up with the unsensable trait I did not intend for androids to be able to hide from a scouter, but my initial thought on your idea is that maybe 'ki suppression' would hide them from a scouter outside a thread, but when face-to-face the scouter would still track them and report the pl values for any launched attacks. I would agree that 1000z for every 2000pl is quite over the top (and perhaps another example of the short-sighted outlook kojima is operating under in terms of balance and equity). My gut reaction to your response though, is; not entirely sure that a higher cost is the way to go given they already have something which diverts their zeni, but have not given it enough mulling over to say for sure. I have been kinda thinking about the nature of this ability and wondering if it needs extra tweeks, but the intent with these zeni costs on androids is that it's actually a time offset, you 'die' and then you spend a thread escaping(like dr Gero after losing to piccolo, or 16 after having his head blown open by semi-perfect cell), and then maybe a thread specifically repairing, and then are back in the action. You use your overdrive to secure a victory and then you spend a thread getting it fixed up, or checking yourself over, then you jump back to training or fighting. Rather than 'you must do a repair thread of X many words' or such, I figured zeni is already good for quantifying that dynamic. That was the initial thinking there atleast. ((Emer, I will address your response in an edit to this post when next on. For now I'm heading to bed to catch some sleep ))
|
|
|
Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Oct 15, 2014 0:04:28 GMT
A note: This is still here, up for debate. However, the changes will be applied as time goes on this week. In the mean time, though, I ask you to bare with the changes until the moment comes to vote upon the race's issues. Remember this, though: there is no hiding the full list of transformations. They're getting shown forever! So, I also ask you with-hold concerns until you see the full list of transformations of each race!
|
|
|
Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Oct 15, 2014 0:04:33 GMT
A note: This is still here, up for debate. However, the changes will be applied as time goes on this week. In the mean time, though, I ask you to bare with the changes until the moment comes to vote upon the race's issues. Remember this, though: there is no hiding the full list of transformations. They're getting shown forever! So, I also ask you with-hold concerns until you see the full list of transformations of each race!
|
|