Mayze
Moderator
PL: 250,469
Super Saiyan(x12) MSSJ(x15)
Zeni: 849
Shoki: 2,965
Tag: @gagelange10
OOC Name: Gage
Posts: 1,232
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Post by Mayze on Apr 16, 2015 4:00:40 GMT
I watched the Gogeta vs Janemaba scene earlier, and it got me thinking about fusion!
Perhaps we could have a fusion dance technique? Now, it would probably be taught in the afterlife at first. Then, a character who makes it out of the afterlife, can teach it to someone! Now, obviously the technique would have to be limited!
1. Length The fusion should only last for 2-3 posts. We don't want someone in a fusion for ten posts! That would be too OP!
2. Equal Power Level? Now like in the show, the power level of the two fusers has to be equal! This means that the person with the higher PL has to have the Ki suppression technique.
3. Power Level Increase? The two power levels would be added together! I.E 100k power level plus a 100k power level is 200k power level!
4. Transformations! How would this work? Well, you need to be the same race, or at least a halfling of the race. I.E A Super Saiyan and Human fusing together would not allow them to go Super Saiyan! Instead, two Saiyan's with the SSJ are able to transform into it! This would go for all races! Now if only one of them can transform, well, not sure, post your opinions on that!
5. How would the fusion be written? Well, I was thinking that the two fusers would take turns posting. I.E Toma and Daiki fuse. Toma posts, then Daiki posts!
6. Interruption? Of course someone can interrupt the fusion dance! So, you better have someone protecting you!
So, that's all I can think of for now! Feel free to offer opinions down below!
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Post by Kaula on Apr 16, 2015 4:31:23 GMT
Here's my thoughts.
1. If you are so keen on taking turns for, number 5, like I am.. Then an even number. I am thinking more... 4-6 posts.
2. Do what you do for combat here. Within the top.. What was it? 85%? Hell, I'd go to say that being within 75% of the stronger person's power level would work.
3. Makes sense.
4. I am not sure about mixes.. But I think if, say, there were two Saiyans fused that their total would equal over 100k, it might warrent a temporary Super Saiyan, if they were literally pushed into that corner in the short time they are fused. But that's just my two cents.
5. Either turns or a complete OOC discussion between the two. However, I feel that all posts that are of a fusion should be declared such and the word count for each post while they are a fusion should go towards each person.
6. Duh.
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Mayze
Moderator
PL: 250,469
Super Saiyan(x12) MSSJ(x15)
Zeni: 849
Shoki: 2,965
Tag: @gagelange10
OOC Name: Gage
Posts: 1,232
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Post by Mayze on Apr 16, 2015 4:45:08 GMT
1. 4-6 posts might be too much, but we'll see! 4. It's been shown for two Saiyans who have mastered the SSJ1 form can easily turn SSJ1 while fused. Also, I beilive Saiyans can fuse with half-Saiyans. Not sure about mixes. 5. I thought about that, but I'm not quite sure how'd that work.
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Post by Kaula on Apr 16, 2015 4:47:56 GMT
5. I thought about that, but I'm not quite sure how'd that work. Well, the two fusiees would have to be close. Like enough to have access to talk with eachother with some IMs, or even voice chat. Like, say, Skype. Yahoo. Steam. Etc. You can also work on posts together in google docs and Titan pad.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 5:34:13 GMT
1. I agree it with Kaula, it should be 4-6 turns.
2. The power should be equal, but ki supression being needed is a bit silly since they aren't hiding their power but lowering their output a bit, howver they should be within say a thousand PL of one another.
3. I think the power levels should be added together and then a certain multiplier added based on different things (same species, same age, etc.)
4. I think that only similar races should be allowed to fuse, so a human-saiyan fusion is ok, but not a human-arcosian, bioandroids is where it gets a bit weird, but I'll leave that up to staff and such.
5. I think that it should go Person A, opponent, Person B, Opponent, Person A, so on and so forth where Person A/B refers to the half of the fusion.
6. Yeah, fair game there.
Something ELSE to consider, mess ups, what should happen if they mess up? comedic failure fighting for a few posts or what?
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Mayze
Moderator
PL: 250,469
Super Saiyan(x12) MSSJ(x15)
Zeni: 849
Shoki: 2,965
Tag: @gagelange10
OOC Name: Gage
Posts: 1,232
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Post by Mayze on Apr 16, 2015 5:39:24 GMT
Well, how would we determine failure?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 5:54:41 GMT
That I do not know
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Post by Kaula on Apr 16, 2015 5:56:33 GMT
determine what?
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Post by Hyoza on Apr 16, 2015 10:06:48 GMT
I actually started drafting some ideas for Metamoran fusion (the goofy dance) a while back. It's a mechanic I feel we should definitely include at some point, but there are several problems we need to consider:
1- Who controls the fused being? 2- How long does the fusion last? 3- How do we calculate the fused being's power? 4- What limitations should there be on who can fuse with who? 5- How are PL/zeni gains calculated for a fused character's posts?
I've had some thoughts on all of these points, and I'll just briefly share with y'all now.
1- Way I see it, is the fused character should be controlled by turn-based posting, as already suggested. The reason I feel this is the best approach is if two fused characters are at very different levels of quality, the system couldn't be abused as a way of 'boosting' a characters' PL gains with work actually written by a different player.
2- How long it lasts is an iffy one. Post count limitations is a bit of an inelegant design IMO, but alternatives are scarce. Most actual battle threads only take at the most 20 minutes of real time. I do think there should be a limitation, as the fear of losing a fusion before securing victory was an important aspect of its use in the canon. I've had difficulty finding any alternative that works well, but I do think if we have to resort to a post limit, it should be at least 5 posts (long enough to use a few techniques, but not quite long enough to use two fully-charged ones.
3- As for how we calculate the power of a fused being, I'm not entirely certain on this either. It was implied in the canon that the combined being's power was actually beyond that of the fusion partners simply added together. Therefore, I'd suggest from a canonical perspective that we should use their combined power plus an additional 25%.
4- As for fusion limitations, the canon established that partners had to be of 'similar' size and shape, as well as being close to equal strength. I would suggest that we don't allow characters of different species to fuse, but it would mean that many characters who have chosen custom races would have no potential partners for fusion, essentially limiting it to the most commonly-used races.
Therefore, I'd suggest that when a pair of characters want to become fusion partners, they submit a profile for their fused being, so that it can be checked over by the mods and approved (to prevent people from fusing Namekians and Arcosians, for example). If characters are of two different species, they must choose the transformations of ONE of the partner characters to use for their fused being. The criteria for approval would pretty much have to be that they meet all mechanical requirements, and that their characters are similar enough in size and shape to believably fuse. The problem here is this isn't a hard-and-fast rule, and mistakes may be made.
regarding PL differences between partners, I believe that if the weaker partner still has at least 80% of the other fusee's base PL, they should be able to fuse. Any larger a gap, however, and they will not be able to fuse.
5- Regarding the calculation of PL/Zeni gains for fused posts, it's a difficult issue again. Once more, we cross the issue of story/logic vs mechanics. If we simply split the grades for fused posts 50/50 between partners, then the character who contributed less to the grade is benefiting unfairly, in a way. On the flipside, if you only grade partners for the posts they themselves wrote, you are not actually rewarding them for half of the things their character does in a thread. This could also be quite frustrating to players, as entering a fusion would limit the number of posts they could make and severely hamper their gains from a thread.
So, as you can see, I've not made my mind up on a lot of these issues, but it's food for thought. tell me what y'all think.
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Mayze
Moderator
PL: 250,469
Super Saiyan(x12) MSSJ(x15)
Zeni: 849
Shoki: 2,965
Tag: @gagelange10
OOC Name: Gage
Posts: 1,232
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Post by Mayze on Apr 16, 2015 15:41:41 GMT
I actually started drafting some ideas for Metamoran fusion (the goofy dance) a while back. It's a mechanic I feel we should definitely include at some point, but there are several problems we need to consider: 1- Who controls the fused being? 2- How long does the fusion last? 3- How do we calculate the fused being's power? 4- What limitations should there be on who can fuse with who? 5- How are PL/zeni gains calculated for a fused character's posts? I've had some thoughts on all of these points, and I'll just briefly share with y'all now. 1- Way I see it, is the fused character should be controlled by turn-based posting, as already suggested. The reason I feel this is the best approach is if two fused characters are at very different levels of quality, the system couldn't be abused as a way of 'boosting' a characters' PL gains with work actually written by a different player. 2- How long it lasts is an iffy one. Post count limitations is a bit of an inelegant design IMO, but alternatives are scarce. Most actual battle threads only take at the most 20 minutes of real time. I do think there should be a limitation, as the fear of losing a fusion before securing victory was an important aspect of its use in the canon. I've had difficulty finding any alternative that works well, but I do think if we have to resort to a post limit, it should be at least 5 posts (long enough to use a few techniques, but not quite long enough to use two fully-charged ones. 3- As for how we calculate the power of a fused being, I'm not entirely certain on this either. It was implied in the canon that the combined being's power was actually beyond that of the fusion partners simply added together. Therefore, I'd suggest from a canonical perspective that we should use their combined power plus an additional 25%. 4- As for fusion limitations, the canon established that partners had to be of 'similar' size and shape, as well as being close to equal strength. I would suggest that we don't allow characters of different species to fuse, but it would mean that many characters who have chosen custom races would have no potential partners for fusion, essentially limiting it to the most commonly-used races. Therefore, I'd suggest that when a pair of characters want to become fusion partners, they submit a profile for their fused being, so that it can be checked over by the mods and approved (to prevent people from fusing Namekians and Arcosians, for example). If characters are of two different species, they must choose the transformations of ONE of the partner characters to use for their fused being. The criteria for approval would pretty much have to be that they meet all mechanical requirements, and that their characters are similar enough in size and shape to believably fuse. The problem here is this isn't a hard-and-fast rule, and mistakes may be made. regarding PL differences between partners, I believe that if the weaker partner still has at least 80% of the other fusee's base PL, they should be able to fuse. Any larger a gap, however, and they will not be able to fuse. 5- Regarding the calculation of PL/Zeni gains for fused posts, it's a difficult issue again. Once more, we cross the issue of story/logic vs mechanics. If we simply split the grades for fused posts 50/50 between partners, then the character who contributed less to the grade is benefiting unfairly, in a way. On the flipside, if you only grade partners for the posts they themselves wrote, you are not actually rewarding them for half of the things their character does in a thread. This could also be quite frustrating to players, as entering a fusion would limit the number of posts they could make and severely hamper their gains from a thread. So, as you can see, I've not made my mind up on a lot of these issues, but it's food for thought. tell me what y'all think. 1. Agreed! 2. I say we make it even, so that both players can post the same amount of times. Maybe 6 or 8 should be the length? 3. Yea I agree with that too, it seemed that when they fused it wasn't additive. I think the Power Levels are added together, and then multiplied by some number. Now, the other way I think it works in the show is that it is multiplicative, now that is obviously too over powered on this site. The wiki doesn't really say much on this. But I think we should go with your suggestion Hyzoa. 4. This is for transformations in fusions. Apparently, the two beings need to be transformed into their form, I.E SSJ before fusing if they want to be in that form while fused. Now, if they train enough, they can transform even when in the fused state. Now onto your fusion profiles thing. That is a fantastic idea! I absolutely love it! Also, same shape and size sounds good. Surprised I skipped over that myself, must have just forgotten about it. 5. I would say to split it 50/50, but I think that is unfair to the players. But then again, fusion should have some disadvantage, and cutting the grade by 50% would make it so that people won't fuse willy nilly.
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Reikiko
Rising Soul
PL: 1; Cherub Cry(x3): 3; Items:One-Use SpacePod; Zeni: 0;
Tag: @chibireikiko
Posts: 61
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Post by Reikiko on Apr 16, 2015 16:17:44 GMT
Fusion~ Mostly things I remember from when me and Zucceta were talking about the fusion idea: Activation:The idea is that Fusion Dance basically has the dance take one whole posting round for both fusion candidates. The dance itself can be interrupted if either player takes X% of their PL in damage. Effect:Fusion Dance will allow the two users to merge into one being. This translates as the merged being having access to the techniques of the combined individuals, a light boost to their combined PL (perhaps like 10~25%?). On terms of transformations, when a 'Fusion Character' is made a profile is made for that fusion that will determinate their 'looks'. For example a Human and a Saiyan Fusion Dance > Hybrid on terms of transformation looks. However, I couldn't think of how the modifiers will work. For example what if a human and Saiyan merge? x45 or x50? Stuff like that needs to be planned out.) Posting:Ideally we want fused partners to 'co-write' their post. In the end your character is still stuck in there. This can for example be done through meetingwords or something similar. Doing it like this will allow both players to keep some input on the posts, and work together in a way that when they take turns posting their gains are sort of left in a fair state. Cause if one guy slacks, you as the other player would be able to poke them to pick up their game if they want you to put in work also. Like... I'm not going to do my usual 1000 words for someone in a fusion dance mode, if said player refuses to put in some effort and try to work on a post together. (note, meetingwords often allows you to get a much larger word count since you're directly collaborating with someone) Side Effect:
When both sides disagree too strongly about something the internal bickering will cause a fusion to be undone, so both sides need to be sort of 'in synchronization/agreement'. So no killing your fused partner's crush cause you didn't get a smooch from her. Gains:
Remains for your own posts made, due to the co-write rule pretty much balancing the efforts. Length:This gave me a curious idea. Fusion lasts longer depending on how 'used' you are to fuse with someone. To explain this a bit more in detail: Reikiko and Kaula fuse for the first time > 1 post Fuse for the second time > 2 posts Fuse for the third time > 3 posts Fusion is mastered > Limit of 4 posts Also you can only fuse once per thread, and this fusion mastery can only happen in a DE/saga (else people would just train their mastery in a few short threads). Albeit this might be relaxed if we make it a training thread with a WC requirement to ensure both sides are putting in effort for their mastery. Either way~ I likely forgot something, but I'm a bit hungry and about to eat, so I'll poke Zucceta since I don't remember in detail how our talk about fusion went =P
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Mayze
Moderator
PL: 250,469
Super Saiyan(x12) MSSJ(x15)
Zeni: 849
Shoki: 2,965
Tag: @gagelange10
OOC Name: Gage
Posts: 1,232
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Post by Mayze on Apr 16, 2015 17:25:03 GMT
Fusion~ Mostly things I remember from when me and Zucceta were talking about the fusion idea: Activation:The idea is that Fusion Dance basically has the dance take one whole posting round for both fusion candidates. The dance itself can be interrupted if either player takes X% of their PL in damage. Effect:Fusion Dance will allow the two users to merge into one being. This translates as the merged being having access to the techniques of the combined individuals, a light boost to their combined PL (perhaps like 10~25%?). On terms of transformations, when a 'Fusion Character' is made a profile is made for that fusion that will determinate their 'looks'. For example a Human and a Saiyan Fusion Dance > Hybrid on terms of transformation looks. However, I couldn't think of how the modifiers will work. For example what if a human and Saiyan merge? x45 or x50? Stuff like that needs to be planned out.) Posting:Ideally we want fused partners to 'co-write' their post. In the end your character is still stuck in there. This can for example be done through meetingwords or something similar. Doing it like this will allow both players to keep some input on the posts, and work together in a way that when they take turns posting their gains are sort of left in a fair state. Cause if one guy slacks, you as the other player would be able to poke them to pick up their game if they want you to put in work also. Like... I'm not going to do my usual 1000 words for someone in a fusion dance mode, if said player refuses to put in some effort and try to work on a post together. (note, meetingwords often allows you to get a much larger word count since you're directly collaborating with someone) Side Effect:
When both sides disagree too strongly about something the internal bickering will cause a fusion to be undone, so both sides need to be sort of 'in synchronization/agreement'. So no killing your fused partner's crush cause you didn't get a smooch from her. Gains:
Remains for your own posts made, due to the co-write rule pretty much balancing the efforts. Length:This gave me a curious idea. Fusion lasts longer depending on how 'used' you are to fuse with someone. To explain this a bit more in detail: Reikiko and Kaula fuse for the first time > 1 post Fuse for the second time > 2 posts Fuse for the third time > 3 posts Fusion is mastered > Limit of 4 posts Also you can only fuse once per thread, and this fusion mastery can only happen in a DE/saga (else people would just train their mastery in a few short threads). Albeit this might be relaxed if we make it a training thread with a WC requirement to ensure both sides are putting in effort for their mastery. Either way~ I likely forgot something, but I'm a bit hungry and about to eat, so I'll poke Zucceta since I don't remember in detail how our talk about fusion went =P Fusion always last 30 minutes. It is only decreased with the more power used. I.E SSJ3 would lower the time. Also, if you take a certain amount of damage, the fusion wears off.
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Post by Kaula on Apr 16, 2015 17:32:33 GMT
Fusion~ Mostly things I remember from when me and Zucceta were talking about the fusion idea: Reikiko and Kaula fuse for the first time > 1 post Fuse for the second time > 2 posts Fuse for the third time > 3 posts Fusion is mastered > Limit of 4 posts Reikula! .... REILA!... Kauliko!...Kaukiko!
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Mayze
Moderator
PL: 250,469
Super Saiyan(x12) MSSJ(x15)
Zeni: 849
Shoki: 2,965
Tag: @gagelange10
OOC Name: Gage
Posts: 1,232
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Post by Mayze on Apr 16, 2015 20:52:54 GMT
Fusion~ Mostly things I remember from when me and Zucceta were talking about the fusion idea: Activation:The idea is that Fusion Dance basically has the dance take one whole posting round for both fusion candidates. The dance itself can be interrupted if either player takes X% of their PL in damage. Effect:Fusion Dance will allow the two users to merge into one being. This translates as the merged being having access to the techniques of the combined individuals, a light boost to their combined PL (perhaps like 10~25%?). On terms of transformations, when a 'Fusion Character' is made a profile is made for that fusion that will determinate their 'looks'. For example a Human and a Saiyan Fusion Dance > Hybrid on terms of transformation looks. However, I couldn't think of how the modifiers will work. For example what if a human and Saiyan merge? x45 or x50? Stuff like that needs to be planned out.) Posting:Ideally we want fused partners to 'co-write' their post. In the end your character is still stuck in there. This can for example be done through meetingwords or something similar. Doing it like this will allow both players to keep some input on the posts, and work together in a way that when they take turns posting their gains are sort of left in a fair state. Cause if one guy slacks, you as the other player would be able to poke them to pick up their game if they want you to put in work also. Like... I'm not going to do my usual 1000 words for someone in a fusion dance mode, if said player refuses to put in some effort and try to work on a post together. (note, meetingwords often allows you to get a much larger word count since you're directly collaborating with someone) Side Effect:
When both sides disagree too strongly about something the internal bickering will cause a fusion to be undone, so both sides need to be sort of 'in synchronization/agreement'. So no killing your fused partner's crush cause you didn't get a smooch from her. Gains:
Remains for your own posts made, due to the co-write rule pretty much balancing the efforts. Length:This gave me a curious idea. Fusion lasts longer depending on how 'used' you are to fuse with someone. To explain this a bit more in detail: Reikiko and Kaula fuse for the first time > 1 post Fuse for the second time > 2 posts Fuse for the third time > 3 posts Fusion is mastered > Limit of 4 posts Also you can only fuse once per thread, and this fusion mastery can only happen in a DE/saga (else people would just train their mastery in a few short threads). Albeit this might be relaxed if we make it a training thread with a WC requirement to ensure both sides are putting in effort for their mastery. Either way~ I likely forgot something, but I'm a bit hungry and about to eat, so I'll poke Zucceta since I don't remember in detail how our talk about fusion went =P Fusion always last 30 minutes. It is only decreased with the more power used. I.E SSJ3 would lower the time. Also, if you take a certain amount of damage, the fusion wears off. I do like the co-writing idea. Sounds like a lot of fun, but do you mean both do there own individual posts, while both still having an input on it? Also, I assume the previous poster would explain the last bit of the first posters action. I wasn't quite sure what you meant by the gains. And the fusion length ALWAYS lasts 30 minutes. It is only lessened if you use to much power, I.E going SSJ3, or if you take to much damage and split. So, you wouldn't need to master it.
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Post by President Bao on Apr 19, 2015 5:17:50 GMT
I'm a simple man so my simple solution was fusion:
Both must know dance (and successfully perform it) Both must be same race (or atleast hybrid with that part dominant) Both must have a base pl within 20,000 of each other (number could be tweeked) Both must be physically similar (no krillins fusing with ox kings)
Fused Base pl = lower persons base x2, and so any transformations they would have due to this can be obtained. (thus where the being stronger than just X + Y comes in, like how gotenks has ssj3 but goten and trunks alone didn't even have ssj2)
Fusion lasts until thread is over.
and sure, lets go with turn by turn for control. Keep in mind though, they are fused, they are of one mind, there is no internal bickering cause they are essentially 'neither X or Y' but rather 'Z' comprised of personality traits from both. (such as how trunk's arrogance held in check by his maturity and reservation was clobbered by gotens inhibition and childishness, to make gotenks into a cocky goofball)
--- Something I thought of as a bonus element we might consider; Maybe you need to spend tech slots to master fusion *with a specific individual*, since you need to 'synchronise' with them.
As for other types of fusion - Potara ignores all the above requirements, it's simply slap on earring and you are fused. This means a higher base pl (since it's not reduced) and less restrictive, but instead of one thread it's perm. In terms of control you'd need to negotiate it yourselves, but likely one person gets control of the char.
Namekian fusion pretty much same as Potara, though the one sacrificing their body must know how to fuse. Any aspects such as caste come from the one acting as the base, meaning racial abilities like the dragon clan special are lost (like how piccolo couldn't make dragonballs). The person who is the base controls the new character (though I guess you could always negotiate the opposite).
and absorption we already have covered.
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