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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Feb 3, 2015 21:58:16 GMT
Now, with all the applications now these days that I've been trying to get approved and made understood, I'm taking the time now to explain this as best I could. There will be a chart at the end elaborating on this. In the general sense, if you are making a 'brand new' technique, you start off at as Novice (N1). From this one singular ability of basic, but powerful caliber, you are capable of earning variations of this Novice level attack or you can get on your way to mastering its Basic format for the most powerful set up to be had! General Leveling Scheme: N1->UP2-->MP3 or N1->UV2-->UV3 The 2nd leveling scheme involves Variations of the N1 Ability. At UV2, you begin to develop one of the following, general, styles: 1) Homing: Hunt down the target via its heat or ki signature. 2) Controlling: Through hand gestures or motions of the body, control the blast towards your target. 3) Singularity: Pull things in towards the blast and then explode for damage. 4) Controlled Zone: Here's something that's been added to the roster, recently, in the guidelines of Explosive Waves. Explosive waves generally erupt all around the user, except from the user himself and any allies or enemies that know of the safe zone. Controlled Zone, in this case, has the user designate a zone that he can see and have the explosion set off there. Variation descriptions for Explosive Waves like this can be Pillars, Shockwaves, or, if one gets creative, bubbles in the air. 5) Barriers: Self explanatory. Perhaps the character's figured out how to make a barrier around himself or in someone else? Imagine, a barrier made out of nothing but Kamehameha waves. Know anything that could be a variant or have a comment on any existing ones? Leave a comment! Now, here's the tree for everyone to use! As a quick note, Variations of the Novice form can vary as Novice (N1) | | _____________________|_____________________ | | | Variation 1 (UV2) | Variation 1 (UV2) | Upgraded Power (UP2) | | | | Super Variation 2 (UV3) | Super Variation 2 (UV3) Mastered Upgraded Power (MP3)
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Feb 4, 2015 0:57:12 GMT
Just some thoughts for other variant archetypes.
Hold Charge: The ability to charge a technique and expend it at a later time. No attacks can be charged until this energy is released, but the user can use melee attacks and maintain the charge. Eye and antenna beams come to mind for this, as do abilities that create "floating orb" type attacks.
Snare: Successful hits reduce mobility (counter to bukujutsu/zanzoken).
Poison/Burn/Etc: Deals 11% each turn (a counter to ki barriers). Runs out when the amount it was charged for expires. For example charged to 66% it would do six posts of 11% damage. Doesn't interrupt the other characters activities but works through Ki barrier if it has already hit.
Barrier Breaker: Double damage against barriers.
Vampiric: Absorb life force equal to half the PL damage done.
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Zucceta
Administrator
PL: 379,083
Oozaru(x10) MSSj(x15) S.Ooz(x22) SSj2(25x)
Zeni: 2290
Tag: @admin
OOC Name: therevolution
Posts: 2,309
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Post by Zucceta on Feb 4, 2015 15:15:42 GMT
I don't see the reason why UP2 cannot be upgraded into UV3. What is the logical sentiment that dictates this?
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Feb 4, 2015 19:51:31 GMT
The understand I had was that you had to build from the first level Variant and upgrade from there,rather than the case being you can do that set up you stated, Zucceta... But if what you're saying is true... *Picturing the image currently* This... is something I need to get the drawing pad and draw out as best I can. o.o'
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Feb 4, 2015 20:18:55 GMT
33%--> 33% w/ effect --> 66% w/ effect
33%--> 66% --> 66% w/ effect
This is how I think it was originally. You could add the variant whenever and it just takes the 33% hit on whichever tier you do it on.
Pros: Least confusing and more time to choose. Cons: Uses less slots overall. (The amount of techs gets crazy)
33%--> Choose 33% or effect--> +33%
This is what Pieter has us doing now.
Pros: Variant/ MP3's are more resource heavy. UP2 and UV2 each cost a tech slot now, so if you wanted both an MV3 and an MP3 it would cost 5 techniques rather than four. (Which could be an OK way to use up the massive amount of techs I suppose but I think that it could be done better.) Cons: Wasn't spelled out so I personally now can't get homing on my eye laser without spending 2 techs instead of one. I would rather my MP3 have been a different move entirely, but now it is a waste not to make it into an MP3.
If we want to occupy more tech slots I think an easier way to do it would be to simply lock a tree upon reaching MP3 or MV3, and force people to start again at the N1 level each time they upgrade. Same +1 tax, without the added complication of having to choose at Tier 2 what the end move will be like.
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Post by President Bao on Feb 5, 2015 3:41:22 GMT
I think this probably belongs in the suggestions area?
I must admit, I haven't kept track of what has been done in the techniques thread. Would perhaps be worth while having additional guides, which could help both staff and players alike when it comes to working out techniques.
I did want to do as Pipa once suggested long ago, and give people a guide of *some* of the sorts of things supports/variants can achieve (or what other players so far may have done), to help those who struggle with that aspect.
The main thing to remember with techniques is: > All-in-one techs are a no go, each 'application' for an ability requires separate mastery (eg. telekinetic push, telekinetic flight, telekinetic barrier, telekinetic binding - all seperate techniques, you can't just have 'telekinesis' and do them all).
> People can 'flavour' techniques as they like but mechanically a techniques power/capability is dictated by it's tier and the users own pl. Additional effects mean it must be a variant or a new technique.
> Certain abilities fall under Special rather than support/offense. Specials are not freely available and can only be obtained through ranked positions/purchased positions/racial trait. They are ones which have special mechanics or more exotic effects(some examples are listed in the masters list).
> I can't think of another dot point right now, feel free to try and come up with what this dot point would probably have been addressing
(and yes, UP2 can progress to to a MP3 or UV3 - it is after all a combo of 'variant' + 'upgraded power'. you can go tech + power + power || tech + variant + power || tech + power + variant)
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Post by Wyntre Cold on Feb 5, 2015 5:46:34 GMT
So, uh... is there anything wrong with making a MP3 an UV3?
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Post by Reikiko on Feb 5, 2015 5:54:02 GMT
As far as I'm reading here, MP3 and UV3 are the end-lines of development. So I'm not sure how you would be upgrading past that.
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Feb 5, 2015 5:56:42 GMT
So, uh... is there anything wrong with making a MP3 an UV3? You would technically be making the UP2 version of it into an UV3, but I believe Bao is saying yes.
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Post by Wyntre Cold on Feb 5, 2015 6:00:26 GMT
So, uh... is there anything wrong with making a MP3 an UV3? You would technically be making the UP2 version of it into an UV3, but I believe Bao is saying yes. So that would do 66% of the damage with an effect? Sorry, I don't really follow... any of this.
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Feb 5, 2015 6:04:24 GMT
Seems to be the case, though I am now confused as well XD
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Feb 5, 2015 14:51:37 GMT
I have pondered on this a little more and I think I see where Pieter is coming from. If they remain interchangeable, you put yourself at a disadvantage if you select UV2 because you can only branch to MV3 with it (or at least it feels implied to be this way). If you take an UP2 you can get both a MP3 and a MV3, meaning you get the best of both worlds. Personally I think you should have to build back up from ground zero for every tech, but if you want to solve the advantage UP2 has just make it so that it doesn't matter at all what you pick as a tier 2. In other words allow UV2's to branch off into MP3's.
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Feb 5, 2015 23:39:42 GMT
@bao: This thread's meant to explain it, and being that this isn't actually a suggestion/question, it can remain in here. If it leads to an actual change about it, then so be it. For now, lets have it remain here.
To me, with Zucceta's statement, I feel that UV2 should be able to upgrade into MP3. There's a guideline that we must adhere to, when we're doing the techniques.
N1 is the original technique, the one that inspires all the variants. But, the path leading to the MP3 needs to reveal the fighter is improving the fundamentals that come with the 'novice' form of the technique. The variants are the ways of implementing different uses to the technique. They change up the fundamentals for special effect of the technique.
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Post by President Bao on Feb 7, 2015 2:55:56 GMT
Now I must admit the system could stand to be a little less confusing, however lets be careful with our terminology as half the arconyms being thrown around right now don't exist XD If you refer back to the techniques thread you will see that the classifications are as follows: To give a visual aid: As you can see, this involves a trade-off, maximum power abilities essentially require your full focus be dedicated to pumping your power into it. There is no 'mv3', you cannot focus your maximum power into a variant ability, because part of your focus is already invested in maintaining it's additional effect. It also shows you how you can progress an ability/how each one 'branches', remembering that when you create a 'tier 2' version of a technique you still retain the 'tier 1' version (allowing your next technique to go the other path if you so choose). Perhaps another helpful visual to clarify the functionality would be this: eg. Kamehameha (N1) →
↓
| Super Kamehameha (UP2) →
↓ | Ultimate Kamehameha(MP3)
| Bending Kamehameha (V2) →
| Super Bending Kamehameha (UV3)
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----- I'm tempted to suggest perhaps we lose those labels and go for a possibly simpler alternative. I am however on the fence about the notion. The idea though was maybe a more simple version would be: Tier 1, 2 and 3 as our power designations (indicating 1/3rd pl, 2/3rd pl and 3/3rd pl respectively) and then simply add a v if it's a variant eg. Kamehameha (T1) Bending Kamhameha (T1v) Super Kamehameha (T2) Bending Super Kamehameha (T2v) Ultimate Kamehameha (T3) Only possible issue there is the conveyance of T3's inability to add a variant, since at a glance it does not immediately communicate that 'T3' is something that cannot have a variant added to it. Maybe replace T3 for 'MAX' to indicate it is the end point and cannot be given a variant. We'd then have (SP) for Special, and perhaps Support also goes on the simple (T1) (T2) (T3) labelling system (given supports such as barriers use the 'rule of thirds' like an offensive ability, it does make a degree of sense to simply use the same labelling system across both).
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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Feb 7, 2015 3:12:19 GMT
If it's alright with you, Bao, I'd like to update the techniques area with that image, to help with that representation, as well as put in the information on certain variant-abilities to be put in there, like what's been listed so far. This way, less confusion and more progression can be had.
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