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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2015 15:09:43 GMT
After asking in the Cbox I learned that currently the way Ki Blasts work is that when two Ki blasts* collide, no matter how strong they are, the stronger one will continue past the weaker one pretty much unaffected. This seems weird to me, so I thought I should suggest this be changed to the following:
If two Ki Blast techniques collide, and they are within 85% of each other (I.E. the weaker one has at least 85% of the strength of the stronger one) they both detonate, canceling each other out in an explosion dealing their combined strength within the radius. If two Beam-type attacks collide under these circumstances it can cause a "Beam Struggle" instead.
A Beam Struggle is where the two fighters continue pushing their beam-type attacks forward in an attempt to overpower each other. During the start of the Beam Struggle the two attacks Stalemate, creating a continuous line of destruction between the two fighters. During a Beam Struggle either fighter can choose to increase the output of their technique (If they weren't using full strength) or change their attack to an improved version of the same technique in order to gain an advantage, such as changing from a Kamehameha [N1] to a Super Kamehameha [UP2] or even to a True Kamehameha [MP3]. Techniques like the Kaio-ken and Makaio-ken are best utilized during a Beam Struggle. If one of the attacks gain a clear advantage over the other it will begin forcing its way forward, the speed based on how much stronger than the other attack it is. If Stalemating during a Beam Struggle either fighter can choose to cease their attack and evade if they feel their struggle was getting nowhere.
So, what do you guys think of this idea as is?
* As in any technique that uses Ki to attack at range, like the Kamehameha, or the Death Beam.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2015 15:21:47 GMT
Well I already put in how they would, but maybe I should change the wording since Beam Struggle is probably more popular a term.
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Post by Ichiba on Dec 17, 2015 15:32:48 GMT
So Kp wise could it work something like: Player 1 uses N1 Galick Gun.....Player 2 uses N1 Kamehameha; Kp for Player 1 2/3 as well as for Player 2. The beams clash causing a struggle. Player 2 uses UP2 Kamehameha...(would this increase damage of the existing attack or would it replace it) Kp = 0/3
Another thing: Transformations would be useable during this time period yes, so they would modify the existing attack?No?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2015 15:39:09 GMT
Well, to be honest I don't think I've ever seen a transformation performed mid-attack. When people transform they normally have to power up a bit, which takes focus. Focus they can't really spare if they're in the middle of a beam struggle. I don't think a person would be able to transform without first stopping their attack, which ends the Beam Struggle.
As for the KP stuff I'll leave that to the people who know more about it from a balance perspective, although I think your suggestion might be a good one for that Ichiba.
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Post by Ichiba on Dec 17, 2015 15:42:37 GMT
Well I do have some cannon example of transformations being used mid attack! A) One time when Goku was fighting Kid Buu with the Spirit Bomb, He became a super saiyan B) Goku vs Vegeta, Goku ups the anti with his Kaioken!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2015 15:53:50 GMT
On this site Kaio-ken are special techniques, and are included in the Beam Struggle Mechanics put up there. Also a Spirit Bomb wouldn't cause a Beam Struggle either, at least not directly. Sphere type attacks are often self-containing, meaning they don't hurt something until they ram into it or engulf it, including the Spirit Bomb. The Spirit Bomb also has mass and is capable of being moved via a Kiai, and the "Beam Struggle" that Goku and Buu had was really using Kiai to push the Spirit Bomb back and forth. And even in that incident Goku stopped his Beam Struggle, and the Spirit Bomb was being pushed at him full speed. It was only after he had stopped the struggle that he transformed and went at it again, taking advantage of the transformation.
So I still think that during a Beam Struggle transformations are off the table, with Kaio-ken and Makaio-ken being special cases.
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Mayze
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Post by Mayze on Dec 17, 2015 20:00:39 GMT
Hi Katsu.
Personally, the 85% sounds like a cool idea, but 90% sounds better to me.
As for the rest of your statement, I personally am not a fan of complexity, and would rather keep beam struggles as they are. Simple.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2015 3:40:13 GMT
@mayze
It was just a number picked out of a hat to be honest. Close to the number in the combat mechanics thread saying that warriors within 80% of each other's power were essentially equally matched.
But about the beam struggle, what mechanics are there for it currently? I haven't found any and if what another staffer told me in the Cbox is correct then there aren't any. Mechanically Beam Struggles don't happen, the stronger attack just plows through and ignores the weaker one like it isn't there, even if they're only 50 points of damage apart. I don't feel what I have listed above is very complex at all. It's based entirely on the way things seem to act in the manga and anime.
Two people fire Beam attacks at each other, they collide, they try to up the ante to push their attack forward, and either one wins over the other one or they both sit there struggling until one decides to evade since the struggle isn't going anywhere.
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Mayze
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Post by Mayze on Dec 18, 2015 3:47:13 GMT
That is the mechanics for it dude. You can RP the beam struggle if you want, or you don't have to if you don't want to. Up to player.
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Post by Wyntre Cold on Dec 18, 2015 4:12:22 GMT
I'm still going off of the assumption that the damage is the smaller amount subtracted from the larger amount because it's simple and it makes sense. So...
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Post by Vi-Poi on Dec 18, 2015 6:00:53 GMT
From what I understand, it's always at 85% the beams are functionally equal (because that's what the combat rule means). At that point there is no governing mechanic and freeform opens up. Do you want to try to engage in a beam struggle? Can you write it so your opponent is interested in trying to outmatch you? Which will give out first?
When opponents are functionally equal, much of the outcome depends on tech-timing or being a good sport, or a combo of both.
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