Post by Vennel on May 29, 2015 4:05:45 GMT
Okay, so this has been something on my mind for a while now. The way zenkai works right now, is for one, really hard to activate. I've had conflicting reports on it as well, so staff members: feel free to correct me where I am wrong.
So, to start, here is the way zenkai works mechanically:
[Insert underwhelming numbers here]
To start with, compared to current gains these are very small amounts. They are made even more insignificant when to get it, you must be participating in an Open death enabled thread, or Saga thread. Meaning already you're gaining a sizeable bonus just for being in that thread. Furthermore, (and heres where conflictions happen first) I've been told two different things, one that you can gain it if killed, and that you also don't gain it if killed. But I've also heard that you have to survive that death enabled thread, and have been beaten to the point that someone can coup de gras you. Meaning someone could post a killing blow. But to survive a DE thread, implies you need an ally to pick you up off the ground, or protect your unconscious/dying body from your assailant. However, this must be the end of the thread, more or less, because if you are near death during a thread and you recover (i.e. senzu bean) the gain is negated/doesn't happen.
Furthermore, I've been told (more confusion) that you can be left for dead, in a DE thread, but also have been told that in a DE thread, all participants have to be willing to kill each other, and that the threat of death will come about. Because if you're left for dead, it could be taken that it was an orchestrated Zenkai grab.
So as you can see, not only is it nearly impossible to get it, with many different reports on what constitutes a valid zenkai achievement, and what doesn't. It's a razor thin descision that makes it so that for most Saiyans, they will never see this bonus used at all, which makes it a very poor racial trait, since it's almost useless. Now, some may be saying "but you get a boost and its blah blah.." but the way the maths works on this, you will never get more than 4k zenkai bonus, except for if you have 200k base or more. And at that point, you have an enormous power level that it's almost useless. And to be honest, at that point (when people were going to that level of transformations) zenkai wasn't a thing in the canon. But at lower levels, that is the only time zenkai has any real benefit. And at that point going into a saga or death enabled thread is certain death at this point with the power creep as it is. You'd be more or less ripped apart by people well into their 12x and higher transformation mods.
To me this means one of four things, either: A) the zenkai bonus should be made more available or usable by lower leveled saiyans, so that it's not some elusive myth they will never see until it's already useless. B) the zenkai bonuses should be increased at the lower tiers to make up for the fact that they're almost certain to die for even attempting to enter a thread that would allow them to have a chance to get it. C) A smaller zenkai bonus, be applied to non-DE threads, small enough that it at least makes a Saiyan not want the fourth option (because zenkai is one of the cooler aspects of Saiyans) D) the racial be replaced with something more viable, more akin to other racial abilities that actually get use.
I'm all for discussion on ways to handle this, whether one of the four options be taken or none at all. Feel free to also correct me if I am mistaken, or clear up the confusion mentioned above over certain aspects of the mechanics, as I keep hearing conflicting answers from various staff members. For now, this thread is mostly to try and decide on a course of action, before how to go about that, or to what extent. But anyways, I now open the floor to the general public. May discussion begin.
So, to start, here is the way zenkai works mechanically:
[Insert underwhelming numbers here]
To start with, compared to current gains these are very small amounts. They are made even more insignificant when to get it, you must be participating in an Open death enabled thread, or Saga thread. Meaning already you're gaining a sizeable bonus just for being in that thread. Furthermore, (and heres where conflictions happen first) I've been told two different things, one that you can gain it if killed, and that you also don't gain it if killed. But I've also heard that you have to survive that death enabled thread, and have been beaten to the point that someone can coup de gras you. Meaning someone could post a killing blow. But to survive a DE thread, implies you need an ally to pick you up off the ground, or protect your unconscious/dying body from your assailant. However, this must be the end of the thread, more or less, because if you are near death during a thread and you recover (i.e. senzu bean) the gain is negated/doesn't happen.
Furthermore, I've been told (more confusion) that you can be left for dead, in a DE thread, but also have been told that in a DE thread, all participants have to be willing to kill each other, and that the threat of death will come about. Because if you're left for dead, it could be taken that it was an orchestrated Zenkai grab.
So as you can see, not only is it nearly impossible to get it, with many different reports on what constitutes a valid zenkai achievement, and what doesn't. It's a razor thin descision that makes it so that for most Saiyans, they will never see this bonus used at all, which makes it a very poor racial trait, since it's almost useless. Now, some may be saying "but you get a boost and its blah blah.." but the way the maths works on this, you will never get more than 4k zenkai bonus, except for if you have 200k base or more. And at that point, you have an enormous power level that it's almost useless. And to be honest, at that point (when people were going to that level of transformations) zenkai wasn't a thing in the canon. But at lower levels, that is the only time zenkai has any real benefit. And at that point going into a saga or death enabled thread is certain death at this point with the power creep as it is. You'd be more or less ripped apart by people well into their 12x and higher transformation mods.
To me this means one of four things, either: A) the zenkai bonus should be made more available or usable by lower leveled saiyans, so that it's not some elusive myth they will never see until it's already useless. B) the zenkai bonuses should be increased at the lower tiers to make up for the fact that they're almost certain to die for even attempting to enter a thread that would allow them to have a chance to get it. C) A smaller zenkai bonus, be applied to non-DE threads, small enough that it at least makes a Saiyan not want the fourth option (because zenkai is one of the cooler aspects of Saiyans) D) the racial be replaced with something more viable, more akin to other racial abilities that actually get use.
I'm all for discussion on ways to handle this, whether one of the four options be taken or none at all. Feel free to also correct me if I am mistaken, or clear up the confusion mentioned above over certain aspects of the mechanics, as I keep hearing conflicting answers from various staff members. For now, this thread is mostly to try and decide on a course of action, before how to go about that, or to what extent. But anyways, I now open the floor to the general public. May discussion begin.