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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Jan 2, 2015 1:31:33 GMT
It's alright. You're just saying the benefits for both sides. It's a discussion after all.
Anyway, getting back to the subject at hand, to elaborate on what's being affected, here's a list:
1) Transformations: Higher tier transformations are things that are meant to have difficulty in obtaining because they're a key defining battle mechanic that actually affects who becomes a major players. If we go with this, the numbers are going to need a vast increase in when the transformations can be achieved. Literally, speaking: Double the value. Here's the reason, in sub points:
a) Weights: Weights, if they remain the same, will offer high quantity writers the ability to instantly get to Tier 2 threads, if they got themselves any of the weights.
b) Group and Saga threads: Group threads don't have a very big amount, but at their current rate, the amount is very noticeable. When you get to Saga threads, the surviving players will be given gains so massive it'll make it practically impossible for players to catch up, even if we do
1- Bonus multipliers for players until they reach a certain point. Right now, this is a operation that we staff have been doing to get players caught up to big players. Higher gains, as it is, will eliminate the experience of role play and make it into a power grind for everyone. I want to feel the satisfaction that this person's adapting, learning, and improving their story and not simply give gains for poor rp.
c) Gravity Chambers and the Hyperbolic Time Chamber: Same as the weights. These remaining the same make it so that players, even if they do x50 gravity, just rise up so fast through the ranks that it makes it impossible to keep track of gains and make plays.
2) Races: Frankly, this is supposed to be more of a sub point of the Transformations or vice versa, but I digress. We will have to take a look at each individual race and rewrite the values of how much strength they get, as well as how much it takes to get there. Even certain mechanics, like the Android's Overdrive and the Demon's Power Skill, will need be getting changed around.
All of this gets affected, the moment our grading system changes. We do have a larger staff, but as it is with the number of players we've got coming in, making characters and writing stories as it is, this will actually increase our workload 100 fold. It took us 3-4 months to get the races updated as they are now, and there's still some stuff that needs proof reading and fixing on some of the races. This is not a pretty sight I'm looking at here, if we decide to vote on this and agree to change it...
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jinzon
Rising Soul
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Post by jinzon on Jan 2, 2015 4:58:57 GMT
Well there are good facts pointed out from what I have seen. But speaking with little knowledge of grading I can only suggest something that would be likely classed as overly annoying. Have two separate systems available to grade with, and have the player decide what system to be graded under. Much like choosing zeni or Pl for instance. And have each one give out a different value. Such as a quality post done in a group/solo training would yield a higher benefit than a group/solo training that was simply done for word count without a lot of real meat to it. So two different systems can be used if so desired. Reward those that work for quality and story with bonuses. Where those that just churn out numbers get decent gains but nothing near what a quality post can bring.
Transformations on the other hand....I have looked them over several times. Some are easy to reach if you grind for it. So these do need some attention. The saiyans forms lack the one thing that has been in many other sites of tried or seen. The first level must be obtained by pl and an extreme emotional event. Ss level 2 can be done the same way or trained, and ss 3 I would suggest be given the need to be gained in otherworld. The hardest transformations I believe to obtain are the bio-android which is why I chose it for myself. you have to create the object that must be absorbed for the next stage.
These are just my thoughts though. I say keep the system as it is personally.
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Zasho Hirugetsu
Archived
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Post by Zasho Hirugetsu on Jan 4, 2015 23:52:47 GMT
If you want a simple, easy to use grading system that accounts for quality and quantity, I've a little something I'd be prepared to submit in private for the consideration of the staff.
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Zucceta
Administrator
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Post by Zucceta on Jan 5, 2015 0:02:02 GMT
If grading-on-quality is removed, you remove the point of having a PL system in a narrative-based roleplaying game imo.
I'd rather have POWER-LEVEL as a system removed ALL TOGETHER, although my preference would be to keep it the same as it is now, maybe hire a couple of extra grading moderators if the problem lies in lack of time for existing staffers.
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Post by President Bao on Jan 7, 2015 9:49:29 GMT
@pieter - as mentioned, I've come to a solution that would require no re-working of content. @ Zasho - always open to suggestions here, it's how we work now, power to the community As noted, this is a rather tricky topic so I'd like as many people as possible to weigh in on this discussion, especially though who *cough cough* brought it up in the first place.
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Vi-Poi
Administrator
Premier of Earth
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Post by Vi-Poi on Feb 3, 2015 23:28:00 GMT
As a brand new member, I have to say that the quality being graded is what specifically drew me here. What are we doing here but story telling? 1000 words of high quality writing should be worth more than 1100 words of nonsensical or poor writing. More description and tedious dialogue is not always a good thing for a story, either.
If the Staff is having problems keeping up with Training Grading, there are better solutions than Word Count Grading, including limiting the number of weekly training sessions from 5 to fewer, and granting proportionally larger bonuses to completely compensate for this lowering. There can be proportionality equations that govern this, with the baseline being how many staff are needed for x amount players. If it reaches a crisis point, recruitment of new members can be slowed or temporarily suspended.
All of these options are better in my opinion than grading by post length.
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Kojima
Archived
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Post by Kojima on Mar 6, 2015 10:44:18 GMT
I'ma be totally frank, I can't be asked to go back and read everything that's been posted so I won't reply to anyone directly. But here's my two cents:
Why the bloody fucking hell would you want to remove QUALITY from your list? I literally could then just bust out a 200k word thread in a matter of maybe 2 hours and get an asston of PL or Zeni from it for minimal work. I could type a load of bullocks and then the staff members wouldn't even have to make an attempt at PRETENDING they read any of it and could then just toss it into a word counter and dish out a random number that way. It'd require very VERY little from anyone and overall promotes a very VERY bad community of people who do lack luster posts with minimal content that makes sense as well as promoting people to just type as much as they can even if it makes no actual contextual sense to the post. For instance they could type 4 paragraphs about some butterfly their character saw which technically only takes place in the spam of about .800 seconds. How do they gain any strength from that? They don't. But with this proposed "Change" it means that those 4 paragraphs of .800 seconds worth of a characters life suddenly bumped them up by most likely a substantial amount. If anything gets removed, My vote is for including Word Count and grade sheerly by Quality. Oh, And just to define what I mean by Quality here:
Quality is determined by the amount of effort put into each post to go along with the scene and aesthetic of the current setting. This means that if someone posts a reaction that makes contextual sense for that post and offers a proper response to what they're reacting too it shows they put some amount of effort into their post and actually READ the previous one. On top of this describing what a character is feeling, how they're thinking, why they're thinking that way, why they're feeling that way can help with the immersion. Describing even the smallest details like them clenching their fists in anger over someones comment can add a lot of immersion and quality to a post that is often overlooked. Immersing someone in a post is difficult to do, Keeping them immersed is harder. If I look at a post that immersed me almost immediately and kept me that way, I'm more inclined to give them a bigger reward than someone who failed to do any of that.... Regardless of word count.
In short: 1,000 Word Quality Post > 10,000 Word Gibberish Post
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Koramund
Archived
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Post by Koramund on Mar 6, 2015 11:16:52 GMT
Kojima, this thread has been dead for over a month. But since it is now revived, I might as well say some more of my two cents. Grading is current the only system hidden from the Public, and I would honestly rather a simplified WC = grading situation. Your all assuming that someone is just spamming, do you not trust your community? No matter what, I want to make good stories, don't you? Its a RP site, this helps people who might not have English as their first language, or someone who tries but is not that good at quality. Not a SINGLE PERSON gets 1 WC = 1 PL/Zeni on this entire site. None, zipoo! Also, each and every person has their own talent and their own writing style, with me I like to get into the gory bits of my insanity and murder, to just expose how much of a monster my character can be, but some people in the exact same situation would take emphasis to other actions and change it to fit their needs. What if my way of writing and viewing, does not click with one person, even if they have master quality? Quality is subjective, as long as the Mods can review the story, make sure it is not spam (Which is rather easy to do, we can just read it to ourselves and see if its the same thing over and over), and then give a grading.
My WC for a thread = 1310 Heavy weights, Quality, and Little man bonus makes my PL gain = [Bao's moustache] Heavy Weights, and little man bonus IF PL/WC are equal = [Bao's moustache] My Gains without any bonuses, just quality = [Bao's moustache]
Quality alone removes almost [Bao's moustache] PL from my thread, and with my boosted stats, I lose almost [Bao's moustache]. Quality should be kept in stories, but I think we should grade based on word count. You get more the more descriptive you are, so why not give bonuses to it? Makes everyone's job easier, and mod simply needs to make sure the story is not spam, and is a decent story.
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Kojima
Archived
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Post by Kojima on Mar 6, 2015 11:24:32 GMT
Lemme just go type up that 200k word thread then for ya and see how much PL I get. Guarantee you that the entire staff will give huge penalties for it making absolutely no sense what-so-ever. Because I'll literally just write 200k words about a butterfly.
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Koramund
Archived
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Post by Koramund on Mar 6, 2015 11:28:09 GMT
That was my point, if you write about spam, or something that repeats, etc, the Staff can refuse to grade it. We do not have the power to refuse a grading post unless it is highly wrong, like you copy and paste your English homework. No one I know has tried that, its a simple trust system. If you do not trust people enough with quality, stay with this system. If most of us can be adults, and treat each other like we already do, and make our stories, we can have this system. IT gives bigger bonuses then quality, and treat this like an increase. Do you spam? IF no, you have NOTHING to fear. This simply gives your stories more reward for being made, and it gives a bigger treat to increase your story. Now if you excuse me, I am heading off to high school
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Post by Hyoza on Mar 6, 2015 12:59:07 GMT
The cure is a larger team of mods (I am willing to step back in here), not a de-emphasis on quality. I like this place because it tries to encourage at least a modicum of good writing and story-craft, unlike many DBZ RPGs which are frankly a fanwank cesspit.
I get the reasons for doing it to streamline running of the site, but I'm not gonna get behind this idea.
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Post by President Bao on Mar 6, 2015 16:28:22 GMT
As Kora initially noted, this was settled long ago, quality stayed as a majority were in favour[myself included]. (Surprisingly the two suggesters of the idea did not weigh in on the topic).
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Ryandurbur
Archived
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Post by Ryandurbur on Mar 6, 2015 17:27:30 GMT
Oh lord nvm, I apologize. I didn't read when this thread had actually ended. I just saw Bao post '56 Minutes ago' so I thought it was up today. My apologies!!!!
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