Vi-Poi
Administrator
Premier of Earth
PL: 434,410
Soul(x40P), Overdrive(x43)
Zeni: 1,247
Tag: @vipoi
Posts: 2,833
|
Post by Vi-Poi on Mar 25, 2017 18:46:02 GMT
Hey everyone, just a heads up that I'm going to be lobbying for the removal of the customized modifiers for the Custom Races. Never is it posted anywhere that custom modifiers for custom species is a thing, it just kind of started happening and people waved it through. Quite frankly, a lot of people have been using it to toggle down already ho-hum modifiers for their Custom Race while boosting up the periods where they shine. This can really throw off the expected balance of each species, especially in end game.
I wanted to get everyone's thoughts on this, because a lot of species are customized, but please look at it from a site-wide perspective and not just on behalf of whatever Alien you happen to play.
|
|
|
Post by Tulip Waterfield on Mar 25, 2017 18:47:21 GMT
Sounds fine to me. (Totally not just because I'm playing a hybrid Saiyan/Human)
|
|
Maxxie Everstone
Archived
PL: 2,000
Intense Struggle (x3)
Zeni: 6,058
Tag: @maxx
OOC Name: Maxxie
Posts: 143
|
Post by Maxxie Everstone on Mar 25, 2017 18:51:19 GMT
I agree with this. Staff spent a ton of time balancing the races, and it would just go to waste if people decide to just try and 'balance' on their own. Also, what is the point of Alien A B and C if people don't want to stick with them?
|
|
|
Post by Plato on Mar 25, 2017 18:55:06 GMT
The only issue I see is with konastian c not sure what still happen with that but I'd also think maybe instead of allowing people to change tge stays to fit with they're images maybe be an alien d
|
|
|
Post by Tabu on Mar 25, 2017 20:03:15 GMT
Fine by me, so all modifiers for aliens would be removed?
|
|
|
Post by Kaile on Mar 25, 2017 22:12:45 GMT
100% agree
|
|
Queen Habana
Moderator
Queen of the Evil Space Monkey People Special Item: GPW Universal Championship Belt
PL: 415,489
Dark Power(x4); M.SSj(x14); U.SSj(x18/12), SSJ2 (x27)
Zeni: 0
Tag: @habana
Posts: 1,374
|
Post by Queen Habana on Mar 25, 2017 22:13:17 GMT
I think shifts in the modifiers can work out if approved just like any UC would be, it'd allow a bit more variance between the aliens, in general shifts in modifiers have been on a +2x for -x2 basis so in many ways it's a bit like how some races are built with negative UC's in order to have more/stronger positive UC's. More unique changes to modifiers could open interesting routes for race design if they are treated as UC's.
It SHOULD ultimately be something noted on the sheet during the approval phase at least.
|
|
Jurojin
Newcomer
PL: 10,091
Hidden Potential (x4)
Zeni: 2,834
Tag: @jurojin
OOC Name: Vladimir
Posts: 44
|
Post by Jurojin on Mar 26, 2017 2:38:47 GMT
I agree with Habana, a +2x should be allowed, but only for Offensive or Defensive, and the other would be -2x.
|
|
|
Post by Alaistair on Mar 26, 2017 6:32:53 GMT
It was a old thing that was tried out a while ago... Like, year one of the site times. Would not mind seeing it be gone now.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2017 3:47:01 GMT
This is a thing? Really? I really haven't noticed it much.
|
|
|
Post by Ninjin Nedrag on Mar 27, 2017 13:06:15 GMT
I think there was really only the Kagami that used that in year one there Pieter but then again I haven't looked over a lot of the custom races. Then again we also screwed up things with the multi path thing but was trying to rectify and modify that into a singular path type of thing.
As for the modifications I think the + or - 2 is a safe bet for custom alien races cause that allows for some less meta gaming aspects of people cherry picking who they want to play based solely on the modifiers in the future.
|
|
Black ♠ Jack
Newcomer
PL: 1,100
Haunting (x12)
Zeni: 5,800
Tag: @black
Posts: 47
|
Post by Black ♠ Jack on Mar 27, 2017 14:48:49 GMT
I believe a case by case would be needed that would include considerations such as how long the player will be at each traded multiplier as well as where the race is sitting in comparison to the others at each level. Given the amount of research needed by the player and staff as well to check for balance I would be inclined towards saying it shouldn't be allowed.
|
|
Vi-Poi
Administrator
Premier of Earth
PL: 434,410
Soul(x40P), Overdrive(x43)
Zeni: 1,247
Tag: @vipoi
Posts: 2,833
|
Post by Vi-Poi on Mar 27, 2017 23:14:25 GMT
I think shifts in the modifiers can work out if approved just like any UC would be, it'd allow a bit more variance between the aliens, in general shifts in modifiers have been on a +2x for -x2 basis so in many ways it's a bit like how some races are built with negative UC's in order to have more/stronger positive UC's. More unique changes to modifiers could open interesting routes for race design if they are treated as UC's. It SHOULD ultimately be something noted on the sheet during the approval phase at least. The problem with that though is, they haven't been treated as UCs, and even if they were, it doesn't really make things more interesting imo, because most things get imbalanced in the same manner. For instance, if you go through the custom aliens that have modifiers, most follow a pattern where they toggle down modifiers where they are already weak, and toggle up modifiers where they are strong.
|
|
Queen Habana
Moderator
Queen of the Evil Space Monkey People Special Item: GPW Universal Championship Belt
PL: 415,489
Dark Power(x4); M.SSj(x14); U.SSj(x18/12), SSJ2 (x27)
Zeni: 0
Tag: @habana
Posts: 1,374
|
Post by Queen Habana on Mar 28, 2017 19:52:34 GMT
I'd have to disagree with this, there are only 3 current races with modified transformations(that are accepted) one does the opposite(Ankoku drop their x12 to raise their x7, they also have an additional disadvantage on there x18/x12 and x16)
and the other two(Kagami and Konatsian Monsters)... are actually a complete mess and im not 100% sure how they got accepted(though Ninjin has mentioned that there are existing problems with here. But there problems arent that they weaken weak points to strengthen strong points, its that they only vaguely resemble a standard frame(Kagami) or are actually absurdly overpowered (Konatsian Monsters)
Konatsian(Monster) -1 to there x12 +4 to there x7 (Inceased PL req) +1/-1 to there x18/x12 +1 to there x20 +2 to there x42 (Increased PL req)
Though ironically I suppose you could say that this is weakening a strong point to make EVERYTHING ELSE stronger. I'm also not entirely against the idea of weakening weak points to strengthen strong ones(within reason) as it means that hitting that weak point will be that much worse. Ideally, in such a case, an increase in PL req should come as an additional balancing mechanic.
Generally speaking, I don't think a race should shift around its mods(on a permanent basis unlike things such as Durability) more than +/- 2-4.
Side Note: we uh, we really ought to take a look at Konatsian Monsters
|
|
|
Post by Ninjin Nedrag on Mar 28, 2017 20:05:44 GMT
The reason the Kagami are a bit of a mess is why I have been trying to rework it there Habana but that is another discussion.
The original intent of the Kagami when me and Emer talked about them when they were added was one path was to be stronger at the start but fade at the end game due to taking more power from the goddess inside IC'ly at the start compared to the other path. Though that is just a ic reason for the differences inside the race paths. But as said I was trying to mess with them and make them into a singular path style of race instead of that double and make it more in line with the templates that are on site now. Maybe moving off + or - 1 on each level. Cannot remember the exact numbers as I have it set off to the side and on the side burner as I work on it.
|
|