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Post by Yocho on Aug 29, 2015 17:56:53 GMT
Ok. I'm just going to put this out there, since you guys are making me feel all guity about playing a Saiyan.
I've just started dragon ball, not even Z. So while I know some stuff about some other species through videos and stuff, I just feel it would be easier for me to not mess up lore and stuff if I played a Saiyan.
I like how Ibexe said it though. Anybody who's got their minds set on one species isn't going to really choose another one, but I read the human thread too, and I like how they did that. Give them more benefits because their PL is lower. Someone who's new to the site (like me) would be looking for something they know best to play. For most people I assume, that would be Saiyans. It's easier. Since they haven't played the site, they're unlikely to care as much about the Zeni, and I know that if I create another character, I'd like to choose maybe a Majin/demon or half-breed. So... Yeah.
But I thought I'd give you how I feel of it as a new player. But then again, I am pretty weird, so I can't say that's how all of the new guys feel.
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Nicolas Mclendon
Moderator
The Hero of the Cosmos: CAPTAIN NOVA!
PL: 145,482
Intense Struggle (x3); X-Factor (x6); Amazing Captain Nova (x16)
Zeni: 2336
Tag: @nicolas
OOC Name: Nicolas
Posts: 1,010
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Post by Nicolas Mclendon on Aug 29, 2015 18:03:43 GMT
Ok. I'm just going to put this out there, since you guys are making me feel all guity about playing a Saiyan.That's not the intention man we don't want you to feel bad for playing who you wanna play and your reasons are totally understandable this thread is more so to discuss how to make the other races more appealing. I'm still firmly on the side of 'Short term fixes don't help Long term problems' though.
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Post by Yocho on Aug 29, 2015 18:13:49 GMT
Ok. I'm just going to put this out there, since you guys are making me feel all guity about playing a Saiyan.That's not the intention man we don't want you to feel bad for playing who you wanna play and your reasons are totally understandable this thread is more so to discuss how to make the other races more appealing. I'm still firmly on the side of 'Short term fixes don't help Long term problems' though. Wait, I meant to put a smiley face after that. I've gotten to know you guys on the chatbox. You guys wouldn't really judge. At least I think I meant to put a smiley face. But I get it. A complete overhaul would be more effective than just changing a few details, but I do believe when people start off, they'd be more likely to care about the species themselves rather than the stats. And once they get used to it, they might create new characters with different species. I do like some of the ideas you guys use. Like, some of the final forms are permanent, but none of the Saiyan forms are. Subtle things like that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 19:30:36 GMT
I also believe more long term solution with the revamps to races already in motions is the better goal. A little zeni seems bleh given that's already a human incentive for more starting zeni as well as zeni boosts. that's a human more thing and a bonus for characters to come seems it'd be better to have a more permanent solution like actually seeing if what changes are to come influence people over momentary rewards.
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Post by Etoru on Aug 29, 2015 19:41:06 GMT
Hey, hate to burst all of your bubbles. As much as I wanna find a solution to this as well, I Believe there is no solution. See if you guys claim that we lock the Sayian race temporarily we would lose a lot of new members. If that's true, then that means all the new members would pick Sayians. IF ANYTHING you should put it on the character creation template to inform new players that Sayians aren't the only protagonists.
If there is a solution, then it would be figuring out a way to amp the other races up a bit. And when I say that. I don't mean make it unfair with PL boosts and Zeni gains.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 20:08:52 GMT
And with that, this thread caught my attention!
Giving other races a "Boost" or "Bonus" is a little unfair judging by how the systems works yet from what I've seen with the charts Bao shows up, all races seems balance with themselves. All races comes with traits that puts them one up the others meaning the bonus and boost will be seriously unfair. The site already has a really good catch up system to it so that shouldn't be a problem.
Now, let's get down to the real problem, Saiyans aren't the top dogs, I've seen other races that have you questioning SSJ and how long it'll take you to keep up. The reason why everyone start off with saiyans is..Well, because they're the main character's race that everyone knows about the most and clearly the love for those two are large enough to blind a few people to actually look out at the others races.
There is no 'perfect' fix to the problem, though how it will work, they'll make a saiyan, get use to the forum then they'll realize saiyans aren't the big thing and finally jump on another race they realize they'll like. You can tempo Lock saiyans, yes, that doesn't mean they'll leave right away unless they're that 'dark' to not read other races. As long as you tell them it's a tempo lock, I'm pretty sure they'll make something else and wait for saiyans to open, even open their eyes and see the other races that are around.
Even so, ya don't even need to 100% lock off saiyans, I've seen other games--I mean site have a 'go-around' for that. Simple as well: "You need to already have a character that has 100k PL base before you can app for a saiyan race. (One saiyan per a character)" or something along the lines, it won't stop them from playing since I know other sites with this limits (Not from a DBZ sites since they're rare) yet there player base never fall.
(This post applies to Half Saiyan and full saiyan)
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Post by Etoru on Aug 29, 2015 20:20:20 GMT
Rose, that makes it seem that Sayians are just that good. Think about it. If we make a goal you must reach before making a Sayian, every one will think it's cooler, better, and overall the top dog race EVEN THOUGH there is no top dog race.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 20:45:13 GMT
Not exactly kiddo ^_^
The goal is to let others try something else before thinking about making into a saiyan. They can believe it's the top dog race whenever they join however once they do try another race and play a little while, understand how the site works and whatnot, they'll realize over time that saiyans aren't that big of a thing, we have enough saiyans already so they'll more likely learn about saiyans from the current players and the downfall. Has predicted, they'll ask about it once they're comfy with everyone and we'll simply explain why saiyans are like that.
Just like us now, we're been on the site for a while and know how it works, we all know exactly how saiyans are and we all know the draw-backs yet we all know just how powerful the other races can be as well.
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Post by President Bao on Aug 31, 2015 3:16:13 GMT
To copy paste a PM comment: The reason saiyans are picked has little to do with their strength(mechanically on the site), it's because many people are biased towards saiyans (or more annoyingly tail-humans ) and see them essentially as the dragonball default, they're also pretty simple and - actually; I recommend brainstorming and considering what appeal factors saiyans have, and other races have, and trying to come up with ways to leverage these, as well as incentive schemes which don't involve buffing or changing other races, but rather better 'advertises' them. We still need to have the species apps fixed, resolving that task will make races much neater and easier to understand (and dispel misinformation that currently exists on those pages), which will in turn have more people interested in them [I've heard a few people over the various months who have steered clear of a given race cause the species page was confusing or they assumed something about the race that wasn't true because the page was unclear]. ----- I can't say I support a race rebalance, things are stacked very carefully right now and buffing up other races will push things too far. Short of removing some of the distinguishing dynamics of certain races making them all more generic(defeating their whole purpose for existing, to be distinct and have a unique gameplay style and contextual 'identity') the issue isn't a mechanical issue, rather it's a perceptual one. I personally suggest we tackle overpopulation directly, people are generally pretty reasonable for the most part: We kill all the saiyans can just add a note to the race profile saying they are overpopulated (even give the direct number of saiyans) and ask people to please consider other races, and guide any new members through suggestions and such to find another race they like. For those who still really *really* want a saiyan, we can also push more for a higher quality standard in their app, they should be able to demonstrate they are committed, can be an actual interesting character, and have the proper muse to be able to play this saiyan given what a high demand for them there is. they should have backstory links to other characters and various hooks to integrate them into the world and give them 'meaning' for existing. --- Would be good however if someone(s) were willing to do an updated census, we can work out how many of what races are currently around using real numbers
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