Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Jan 22, 2015 19:56:01 GMT
Late game transform advantages don't mean anything because the changes are not drastic enough. 39/50 is .78
A base PL of 1 million for someone with a x39 is 39 million. A base pl of 1 million for someone with a x50 is 50 million. The result is the same, 78%. So two people with a base power level at this tier will almost always be within 80% of one another at the later game with the rare exception of a human, but the catch up amount is only 2% more effort) By rule 80% means equal.
Compare this to now where a saiyan has basically a x0 (throwing an event bone once a year isn't really a bonus) verse an arcosian. Saiyan and Arcosian with 100pl.
Arcosian can access his x10. 1,000 pl Saiyan on the average day can not. 100 pl.
So basically a saiyan on the average day is going to be a tenth of his arcosian counterpart. At the end game he isn't getting anything effectively because the lowest ranked pl race is going to be within 80% of him if they share an equal amount of effort (power level).
Most races are falling into the x3ish range to start. 30% of the pl of an arcosian transform of the same power level. The disparity between the early game advantage of an arcosian and the late game advantage of a human is huge.
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Post by Wyntre Cold on Jan 23, 2015 1:16:40 GMT
Of course, that's the way it's suppose to be. Plus, the Oozaru is going to be for a month every week. Don't think the True form is with-out faults, either, half the grade will mean they grow more powerful at half the rate, in this time someone else could get a new better transformation, or possibly even go one on one with their True Form, like for example when I thought Emer and his 2x.
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Jan 23, 2015 1:27:57 GMT
Arcosian's are supposed to have a huge early game advantage and no real penalty in late game play other than vs humans (a very small penalty at that)?
The pl penalties don't really hurt your pl grinds. You don't need to leave supressed to train. So I guess you get hit on saga battles but those are so rare that it doesn't matter.
Emer had a way higher base power level than you, like way higher. This is about two individuals of an equal base power.
Even with a monthly oozaru and makyo, most races are left behind. I am not arguing that arcosian's at this stage need fixed. I am arguing that the slow start races need a higher modifier to be actually meaningful in the late game, because as it is arcosian's are having their cake and eating it too.
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Post by Wyntre Cold on Jan 23, 2015 1:49:11 GMT
It's already been balanced enough. Heck, the 39 to 50 difference needs to be shortened! Plus, it's used very rarely. For example, the only two times I've used it are against Emer and against another True Form Arcosian. Almost immediately, at 5k, the Brute Form already becomes the main transformation, which isn't too much beyond the other early transformations.
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Jan 23, 2015 1:59:56 GMT
If you are within 80% power level you are considered equal... Those transforms are within 80% of each other... Literally none of the late gains trans number mean anything at the moment other than human vs the x39's... (again assuming equal power levels)
Fact is you can be above the average cat of the same power level in the begging (at will), yet you don't pay for it in the end at all other than a small inconvenience.
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Post by Wyntre Cold on Jan 23, 2015 2:47:46 GMT
If you are within 80% power level you are considered equal... Those transforms are within 80% of each other... Literally none of the late gains trans number mean anything at the moment other than human vs the x39's... (again assuming equal power levels) Fact is you can be above the average cat of the same power level in the begging, yet you don't pay for it in the end at all other than a small inconvenience. Only it isn't a small convenience... A Bio-android that absorbed someone is encroaching on. Makyo and Oozaru are pretty common. What was your point in all of this, anyway?
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Jan 23, 2015 2:54:26 GMT
The same point it has been that you have failed to bring anything to the table on.
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Post by Wyntre Cold on Jan 23, 2015 3:19:23 GMT
Perhaps, but this table of yours has no legs to stand on, considering no substantial support.
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Jan 23, 2015 3:24:05 GMT
Not true at all, if the late game transforms are all equal to one another because of the percentage=equality system then their is no late game benefit for the weaker races who are supposed to be better at those times. If I was calling for a nurf to humans you would be all over it because you aren't thinking about mechanics on anything but objectivity. The simple math does not lie, no matter how you want to try to spin it to suit your own needs.
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Post by Wyntre Cold on Jan 23, 2015 4:11:05 GMT
Not true at all, if the late game transforms are all equal to one another because of the percentage=equality system then their is no late game benefit for the weaker races who are supposed to be better at those times. If I was calling for a nurf to humans you would be all over it because you aren't thinking about mechanics on anything but objectivity. The simple math does not lie, no matter how you want to try to spin it to suit your own needs. Exactly. The math does not lie, and they still have a 22% bonus. At the moment all you're doing is proving my point.
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Jan 23, 2015 4:17:23 GMT
OK so take the 22 and subtract 20 Wyntre. You only need to be within 80% to be equal to them in strength. 2% actual difference.
Vs you having 10 times more than someone without a trans at the moment like an event trigger race with no other trans, there is no comparison.
Even if it was 22%, and lets say the average trans is 3 at this stage of play. You are 70% stronger. The race closest next to trigger event saiyans with a x8 is 20%... all others are way below the equality line.
So why is their such a disparity between the differences between any race at low level compared to the races at the upper levels?
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Post by Wyntre Cold on Jan 23, 2015 4:19:50 GMT
Yes, that's a whole 20%. Again, your point is mute.
There is a huge-payoff anyway, half the graded gains. So we may as well split the 10x in half, not even counting the fact that's it's never used...
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Jan 23, 2015 4:28:10 GMT
Combat The main staple of the manga Dragon Ball was, for the majority of its run, the intense and dramatic fighting within its pages. Often called the greatest fighting manga ever, and the greatest Shōnen of all time, here we will seek to replicate its skill and drama. In the manga, however, it was often very clear-cut who would win - the strongest fighter would always prevail, even if the opponent put up a decent challenge. To make this roleplay more fair, however, the gap between two fighter's 'power-levels' can be more than you might expect. This is so both parties won't get as frustrated or bored if one player has been around for longer or has more free time to put into his training than the other. So - at 80% power, warriors are considered to be on equal footing. This is about the difference between Frieza and Goku when both were at full power on Namek, where Goku was shown to be the clear-cut victor (at least, in the manga). And, at 65% power, lower-level fighters can still hold their own against a much-stronger warrior. Below that and they'll have to plan accordingly and work together to beat a stronger foe. Even if it was 22%, and lets say the average trans is 3 at this stage of play. You are 70% stronger. The race closest next to trigger event saiyans with a x8 is within 80%... all others are way below the equality line. So why is their such a disparity between the differences between any race at low level compared to the races at the upper levels?
Please quit saying my points are moot because I don't think you know what that even means.
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Post by Wyntre Cold on Jan 23, 2015 4:40:47 GMT
I am well aware of the rules, and I must say that it's supposed to be this way. Arcosians are meant to be powerful beasts early game and kinda lacking, while not extremely weak, later game. It is balanced the way it is... and, again, you're ignoring the minus of the 10x, again.
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Jan 23, 2015 4:47:13 GMT
No I am not, I am just ignoring straw mans that you present now. I already told you why the 50% reduction doesn't really matter. (how many training posts have you done outside of suppressed? Probably not many.)
The current design says that arcosians never have to struggle because of the 20% rule. The design change I propose would put you into a near or equal struggle that others have to go through in the early game at the end game. It would also hurt my own race and other 39's too- that doesn't mean it shouldn't be so.
"It is supposed to be this way" is your opinion. Mine is to the contrary because you are getting welfare pl trans boosts and not paying it back in the end.
This wasn't even really about arcosian's it was about buffing the races that are supposed to be good at the end game so that they are beyond 30-40% of the other races so that their is actually a point to the struggle of the weak races.
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