Vi-Poi
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Post by Vi-Poi on Feb 26, 2015 22:54:03 GMT
I didn't see what set him off the second time, but I think Bya deserves a warning of some sort too. His attitude was very abrupt and he was speaking in a rude manner even before the argument, and his response in caps with ellipses to your question about Pipa was over the top.
(Not sure if this is the correct place for the suggestion, apologies if not)
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Kojima
Archived
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Post by Kojima on Mar 6, 2015 10:29:57 GMT
Should try finding out everything about it before trying to say someone deserves a warning/ban.
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Vi-Poi
Administrator
Premier of Earth
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Zeni: 1,247
Tag: @vipoi
Posts: 2,833
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Post by Vi-Poi on Mar 7, 2015 23:23:14 GMT
Hello, Kojima. I was witness to what occurred, and would have captured the screens and added the Warning myself if I'd known the mechanics of it then -- your behavior was unacceptable regardless of your grading issue. No one deserves to be spoken to in such an abrupt and rude manner as Zucceta was, with aggressive capitalizing etc, and no one should be allowed to speak to someone in such a disrespectful and bullying manner. The cbox is an extension of the site, and the same rules apply to everyone equally there as they do here.
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Kojima
Archived
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Post by Kojima on Mar 8, 2015 5:21:08 GMT
You sit there and say I was speaking of Zucceta in an abrupt and rude manner when I wasn't. I was stating plain facts that you interpret as "rude and abrupt", it's not MY fault that you fail to see how rudely I was treated by Zucceta and that my anger towards her is 100% justified. On top of this I never spoke ill of her, only spoke of her mistake. If we REALLY want to get into this: Had I insulted someone the way she insulted me when I first joined this site I'd of been immediately banned for the amount of disrespect that was given yet she only receives a 20% warning level from herself and NOBODY bats an eye at it nor cares about it. You staff think you're above everyone else and that the rules don't apply to you and yet when someone calls you on something you sit there and tell them to shut up and stop talking because they're wrong.
I've taken the primary brunt of the staffs hatred for the longest time and I'm quite frankly sick and tired of you getting away with the rudeness, disrespect, and outright assholeishness that you've shown me. Please examine the following VERY CAREFULLY.
1) My thread was already 50% graded 2) My thread was sitting there FOR A MONTH 3) I had mentioned it and brought it up numerous times within this month 4) You staff INSISTED that I replace it inside the "Threads to Grade" thread despite that it'd already been placed there once, Been mentioned (AND LINKED) numerous times. 5) I had ASKED that someone, ANYONE, of the staff grade it WHEN THEY HAD TIME when Zucceta bitched me out and insulted me the way she did. 6) Not only have I been insulted by the Co-Founder, but there are several occassions when the staff have blatantly ignored the rules and EVERYONE points the finger at me and blames me entirely. 7) Bao has told me that EVERYONE involved in ANY dispute that offers warning gets punished. E V E R Y O N E... I'm the only one that ever gets punished.
So sorry for having a bit of a sour tooth towards the staff lately but they haven't given me any reason to want to give them any respect again. When I meet someone, I give them respect right away. It's up to them to keep it. Save for the except of a few members on the site, almost nobody on this site has earned my respect back. You sit here and say I've been rude, but is it not rude to sit there and put someone on blast because of personal issues? Is it not rude to sit there and intentionally IGNORE someone's thread when it's been sitting there for a month waiting for the finishing of it's grade? Is it not rude to tell someone to shut up and stop talking when they are only speaking their opinion? Is this site not a democracy? If it is then my opinion is allowed to be spoken without ANYONE saying otherwise and saying otherwise is exactly the same as being the American Government which wants to silence those who oppose it which the staff on this site are currently trying to do and that's what they always do to me whenever I point out some bullshit that's happening.
Maybe some of the things I said could've been worded differently, maybe not. Do I regret anything I said? Absolutely not. Fact of the matter is I've been insulted, degraded, bitched at, humiliated, told to shut up, not allowed to express my opinion and much more and yet I'm the ONLY one that has ever gotten a fucking warning for it and YOU, YOU dare to say that I'M the rude one? No good sir, you're the rude one. I'm not going to fucking sit back and let the staff run all over me because they think they're above the rules.... Here, let me tell you something Bao once told me:
EVERYONE is subject to the rules.
That means Staff, Co-Founder, Founder, Members, Everyone. The fact that the staff have remained completely unwarned, completely unchained and allowed to insult and degrade it's members without any consequence is honestly beyond unacceptable and I've tried my hardest to remain calm in all confrontations with everyone. But when you sit there and are shit upon and basically told your opinion doesn't matter it tends to change your opinion on people and tends to make you respect them less and less. Fact remains that all respect for almost all the staff from me has gone out the window and the chances of those few getting it back is getting slimer and slimer with each time they try to order me around like they fucking own the place.
I'll close by saying this: Staff, 9/10, are the face of the site. If a member sees a staff member being rude, regardless of WHY, and not get in trouble for it, they're going to do the same thing as them and expect not to get in trouble for it.
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Daiki Iranos
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Post by Daiki Iranos on Mar 8, 2015 5:36:36 GMT
+1 Kojima, if he got btched by one of the staff, even if, in fact, he asked for it by being mean first, there should be punishement for the staff. When you are part of the staff, you should mute people if they get too mean or flooding, they should not insult them. I'm just putting my sincere opinion there, since it happened to me a little while ago, and even if Athren was a mod, he was punished for insultming me. People, even mod, that answered by bitching, insulting ... to Kojima, even if he was mean in the first place, should be punished as well.
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Hitake Itori
Rising Soul
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Post by Hitake Itori on Mar 8, 2015 5:47:13 GMT
The thing is. The staff that had been involved, and had insulted Kojima, HAD been punished. Zucceta punished themselves. Athren got punished, Emer got punished for his stuff. If you go look, the staff has been punished for those few specific deeds. At this point its not about respect or about opinions. The site has rules that are meant to be followed, and people need to follow them. We get you had to wait a long time for your thread to be graded. I'm sorry that happened, and I am sorry you feel crapped on.
But repeatedly coming into the cbox or shout box and breaking the rules over and over is not the way to get anything done. Staff is not above the rules, and neither are its players. Honestly, all I see when I enter the cbox is cussing calling people out, calling staff out, and refusal to follow the rules everyone is meant to. Just because you feel you have been mistreated, that does not make you above the rules. I'm sorry but this is getting out of hand.
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Kojima
Archived
PL: 21,516; Hidden Potential (x4) 86,064; Items:Scouter, One-Use Space Pod; Zeni: 656
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Post by Kojima on Mar 8, 2015 5:51:27 GMT
So what you're saying, hitake, Is that a 20% warning is a fine warning for something a member would be instantly banned for? I don't think so. That's playing favorites and saying that the staff are favorited over the members... which is a very VERY bad way to do things. Also: Please read through everything I said as those "punishments" that were received when I was involved were minimal at best. Emer? Got a 10% warning when I got a 50% warning. Zucceta? Got a 20% warning where I'd of been banned when I first came to the site. I'm sorry but that isn't equality, that isn't democracy. That isn't what the OWNER of the site has stated for the rules. You say I keep breaking the rules, but when have you actually been there lately? You haven't. I asked, in a very calm and polite manner, that SOMEONE, ANYONE, grade my thread when they had the chance... I was then IMMEDIATELY insulted and bitched at by the CO-FOUNDER of the site. What kind of example do you think that sets? Not a very good one. I'm going to call staff out when they get to ignore the rules and aren't punished when they should be, I'm going to call staff out when they get a lesser punishment than a member of the site would've gotten, I'll fucking call out the god damned owner himself if I have too. I don't care who it is, Bao has stated HIMSELF that EVERYONE involved in a dispute or argument gets punished equally.... EVERYONE. I'm not above accepting a punishment I deserve for breaking the rules. But when the rest aren't punished with an equal punishment when the OWNER of the site himself has said that is how the punishments work I refuse to accept any punishment regardless of the severity.
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Post by Toma on Mar 8, 2015 5:56:09 GMT
Who says that you'd have been instantly banned for that transgression, though? That is what you're ASSUMING not what the STAFF thinks. You're not staff and you can't speak for what would/wouldn't be bannable.
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Kojima
Archived
PL: 21,516; Hidden Potential (x4) 86,064; Items:Scouter, One-Use Space Pod; Zeni: 656
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Post by Kojima on Mar 8, 2015 5:56:58 GMT
No it's what's fact Toma. Because I WAS banned instantly when I insulted someone the same way that Zucceta insulted me.
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Post by Toma on Mar 8, 2015 5:58:50 GMT
Was that on this site, or was that on another site? A site ban and a C-Box ban are totally different things.
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Kojima
Archived
PL: 21,516; Hidden Potential (x4) 86,064; Items:Scouter, One-Use Space Pod; Zeni: 656
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Post by Kojima on Mar 8, 2015 5:59:44 GMT
It was on this site and it was banned from both. I speak from personal experiences Toma, Please stop trying to make me sound like an idiot as it's rather annoying, disrespectful, and rude.
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Post by Toma on Mar 8, 2015 6:11:45 GMT
I'm not trying to make you sound like an idiot. I'm simply asking questions and stating facts, which is the same thing you claim to be doing. I'm simply getting answers from you so that I can get a better opinion of what is happening.
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Kojima
Archived
PL: 21,516; Hidden Potential (x4) 86,064; Items:Scouter, One-Use Space Pod; Zeni: 656
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Post by Kojima on Mar 8, 2015 6:13:44 GMT
It was the manner in which you went about it. Instead of asking "What makes you think that? Did it happen to you?" Or something along those lines, you said "Who says that you'd have been instantly banned for that transgression, though? That is what you're ASSUMING not what the STAFF thinks. You're not staff and you can't speak for what would/wouldn't be bannable." which is indicative of you calling me an idiot and not knowing what I'm talking about.
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Post by President Bao on Mar 8, 2015 11:29:39 GMT
I will take a moment to clarify the incident Bya is referencing, though my time is very limited so please excuse if this is a bit rushed: The insult in question was Zucceta stating the words: "That is not what I asked you insipid chode" (or close it it, 'chode' being the payload of the given insult) This was deleted quickly after (but not quickly enough to go unnoticed) and apologised for as an unacceptable lapse in the respectful conduct expected from participants of this site. Zucetta then followed the process in place and dispensed the punishment specified as per my instructions: including a warnings board write up, a warning level of 20 being added to his account, and a corresponding suspension of activity for 30 minutes. (for reference: wodsouls.freeforums.net/thread/1125/updated-rules-staff-process ) It has come to my attention that Bya feels this amount is insufficient, and shows bias. My intention moving forward is to create a dedicated 'grievances/appeals' board, as a place where all such objections or contentions can be submitted and reviewed by the community, with corresponding adjustments based on such verdicts. The first order of business will therefore be in regards to Zucetta's warning amount, though I definitely invite any reading to create a thread for such a discussion now rather than later, which can be moved to said section once it is created. ------------- The 'bans' bya is referring to are actually temporary suspensions issued against accounts any time their warning level increase in enacted(see the thread linked earlier). I am not aware of any breaches of process in regard to Zucetta's punishment, though if anyone is then I definitely invite them to provide their evidence/testimony during the review to help ensure justice is served. ( A breach in process I am aware of however is what I believe were two(?) separate cbox-only suspensions (that I am under the impression were half hour in duration) which were delivered against byas account during cbox disputes he was engaging in with other members roughly a month to a few weeks ago. These lack a corresponding warning board submission, and were not tallied against byas account warning level - which is not following proper process, and one I am taking responsibility for as the de-facto head of this site. I do not believe they were delivered in error nor constitute any form of abuse, but the fact that it was not followed through in the proper manner is something that I have been addressing with staff, and have taken steps to ensure does not happen again, as it is vital that all such discipline be documented and transparent.)
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