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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2014 18:55:30 GMT
I've never liked the idea of humans having transformations, but I do find it important that humans shouldn't be left behind in some cases. It is also a good decision to give them a stronger transformation to make the race a bit more attractive. I don't know, Tien was one of my favourite characters, but I'm equally guilty of the Saiyan nostalgia.
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Kojima
Archived
PL: 21,516; Hidden Potential (x4) 86,064; Items:Scouter, One-Use Space Pod; Zeni: 656
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Post by Kojima on Dec 3, 2014 8:54:53 GMT
Okay here's the problem and Emer sort of brought this up. Alien A's are supposed to be the STRONGEST at end game as has been stated dozens of times since I've joined by numerous staff members. Not only is their final trans WEAKER in terms of stats than Humans, but it also REQUIRES something while Humans do not. Humans have NO flaws AT ALL. Their ONLY flaw, As you try to say, Is that they're the "weakest" in the early-mid Power Levels.... but that honestly isn't a flaw, with the ability to gain almost 2x as many techs as anyone else... yea. Let's actually do the math shall we?
at 500,000 Power Level, Humans can have upwards of 125 techniques. Hybrids get 100 at 500,000. Any other race at 500,000 Power Level, will have maximum 83.
This is a massive 42 technique difference. Add onto that the highest multiplier on the site and you get a race that has absolutely NO downsides to playing. Zenkai falls off at higher Power Levels and the higher you are the smaller the zenkai boost you get, it ALSO has to be a Death Enabled thread with your character actually HAVING the possibility to be killed off.
Arcosians, yea, they have durability, but they also gain upwards of 50% less Power Level from threads. Namekian regeneration is nice, yes, but that doesn't compare to a modifier difference of x8, even if they get it 75k sooner. Demons, from what I can tell, still have a requirement on their final transformation and that's only a x39 modifier. Alien B, from what I can tell, have to be turned into at least part android to get above a x15 transformation. Hell even Bio-Androids have to get a saga defeat to get their x43 trans.
Humans are literally completely overpowered at end game as they currently are, there is no way around this. At end game 500,000 Power Level they have: 1) The strongest Multiplier on the site 2) No requirements to get the strongest Multiplier on the site 3) No flaws AT ALL 4) Upwards of 42 MORE techniques than ANY OTHER RACE. (25 more if hybrid human)
They are the primer ultimate race at end game that can literally beat any other race once that human hits 500,000 Power Level. They don't require a Saga Defeat, they don't require trauma or something that makes intense emotions surge forth like SSJ(2). Their Legend trans has literally no drawbacks to it at all. Honestly, I've got to side with Emer on this. Humans are overpowered the moment they hit 500,000 and get the highest transformation on the site.
I get Bao wanting to make the Underdogs one of the strongest on the site (Strongest), but I can't just let this kind of thing happen. Honestly, I have to say either make it require a saga defeat or make the PL requirement higher because as it stands... It simply cannot work, Humans are flat out Overpowered.
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Koramund
Archived
PL: 121,168
Bio Metabolize(x3)
Zeni: 2,003
Shoki: 7,708
Tag: @koramund
OOC Name: Saiyan, Namekian, Human
Posts: 694
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Post by Koramund on Dec 3, 2014 11:06:49 GMT
Alien A at 499,999 PL: 23,999,952 Human at 499,999 PL: 11,499,977 Saiyans/Hybrids at 499,999 PL: 22,499,955 Cybrosian/Android/Demon/Alien B at 499,999 PL: 19,499,961 Alien C / Namekian at 499,999 PL: 20,999,958 Bio-Android at 499,999 PL: 21,499,957 -------------------------------------------------------- Alien A at 500,000 PL: 24,000,000 Human at 500,000: 25,000,000 Saiyans/Hybrids at 500,000 PL: 22,500,000 Cybrosian/Android/Demon/Alien B at 500,000 PL: 19,500,000 Alien C / Namekian at 500,000 PL: 21,000,000 Bio-Android at 500,000 PL: 21,500,000
So at closest they are 1,000,000 away from the nearest PL, at most they are 5,500,000. But under that number they have a 95% mortality rate essentially. Since you can only be killed in certain threads, humans just need to wait until they become hyper powered to destroy foes, its no contest. Plus, the lowest (Android, Demon, B, and Cybrosian) are only at 78% of the Humans power at that time, so will have difficulty standing up to them. HOWEVER, I feel Humans should get a buff. I want their trans to be closer to every other race to lighten that massive jump, maybe make their penultimate transformation X38? That way they are just barely weaker then the Cybrosian, and then they shoot up to a x50. That way you are only gaining a X12, not a X27!
Also, I feel Humans are good where they are. No body on the site can GET those insane PLs yet, so we can't test and see just how tough they really are.
My suggestion: Human 499,999 PL (38): 18,999,962 Cons: None Pros: They are MUCH more equal to everybody else, while still having a decent modifier.
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Post by Wyntre Cold on Dec 3, 2014 20:22:02 GMT
But just in case, how about wekill all the human characters? :3
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Post by President Bao on Dec 4, 2014 5:50:10 GMT
Getting smashed with work so I don't have much time, but here is something to address Emer's post which I had begun yesterday(you may have noticed my lack of addressing character apps or chatting in cbox) : Alright, I was gonna keep quiet on this, but I do believe it's required my own attention. We talk about humans being the weakest right? But lets take a minute and step back, the way I see it Alien A is weaker than humans. There's a specific reason I believe this. The Alien A's first trans is 2x, While humans have a 3x, which Alien A doesn't need a certain pl to control theirs, but at 20k humans can control theirs. This first transformation is a 2x to a 3x putting humans ahead starting alright. Alien A and Human are very close on the charts, but humans are still weaker and far more limited in customisation, since the draw card of the three alien races is that you get to make your own custom race with custom abilities and traits and transformations.It's also about usable power not just raw numbers, that's why despite having a x10 straight off the bat saiyans are not the early game king, arcosians are - exact same multiplier, but the availability difference is the deciding factor there. Now when it comes to the second trans, Humans and Alien A are both even. Third trans, Alien A's possess a 15x times trans, which requires a Higher Pre pl requirement. That means Humans easily beat out Aliens at first. Then comes the fourth transformation where Humans do indeed get a bit weaker, but I do wish to state this. They both need 250,000 for their pl gain. Which it gives Alien a a 2x higher than them. with Alien A having a 25x and then a human have a 23x. Then here's where it gets me that makes me laugh. I am certainly glad to see you and others are applying data logic, making comparisons and analysis of the game systems, it's cool to see and I enjoy being able to have these sorts of discussions with you guys - my counter to this assertion however would be: Just above you dismissed a 20,000pl requirement on their first trans as a negligible demerit, but much later in the game where pl enhancing items are expected to be far more widespread, you are using a 10,000pl difference to argue they easily beat them out. (similarly, a x1 difference in your first part was presented as a clear advantage despite it's uncontrolled nature, but a x2 disparity here[which equates to 300,000pl at this stage] is only begrudgingly hand-waved as a little bit lower.)
Humans can get their final trans at 500,000 alright that's decent. An Alien get's their at 460,000 pl which isn't much difference as stated about only a 10k difference. I think your math is a little off But the fact of it is, The Alien A need's a saga defeat to even get their 48x which means death. As for Humans they only have a requirement to get to 500,000 pl. And then it gives them a 50x boost compared to a 48x a alien A states. That's assuming you choose the higher/additional requirements in trade off for the higher multiplier, rather than the earlier x42 power, which is available to Alien A a full 100,000pl earlier than humans final trans and puts them above nearly all other races except three - humans because they are meant to have the best end, saiyans because saiyans, and bio-androids because they face a saga defeat requirement(and unlike AlienA are not given a choice and do not get anything higher).
While we are mainly drawing 1 - 1 comparisons currently, you also need to remember these races were not designed in a vacuum, they are all balanced against *each other*. Human is not the 'default' comparison point, they are the heaviest late game skew.
Continuing this, Humans have a natural racial ability to gain a technique every 4,000 pl opposed to 6,000. They literally have no weaknesses in their traits. No comment on Alien A's Racial Traits? if you only mentioning one side then it's like comparing apples to
... But for Alien A's to require a death/Saga defeat for a form that's suppose to be weaker than a humans legend form, is not ok in my books. I will fight this all the way honestly. I do genuinely have to ask... What specifically is the perceived problem with humans being balanced in this way? Does it make you mad that after earning the highest requirement in the entire game, they get given the highest transformation as a payoff? While alien A, with the optional third highest requirement in the game, get the second highest multiplier (and who aren't even forced to follow this path if they don't want to)?
Maybe I'm just reading it wrong, but it sounds like you're being more than a little unreasonable.
Humans are underdogs yes, but to become the strongest end game? I don't see that happening at all. Even in the show none of them had surpassed a ssj3. Let alone a SSJ, Gonna be cuttingly honest, I think we all know why this particular point is rather silly to use, and why the races are not designed in such a way, so to save on time I'll avoid further elaboration, sorry if it sounds rude but time is of the essence this week :Xif you want to count Uub, He wasn't human as you think. He was wished back as a good guy. He was in fact still a Majin in pretense which gave him abnormal power when brought back. You're talking about base pl not transformations Also Ubb is 100% human.
So honestly Bao, I do not agree with the humans Legendary form being a 50x at 500,000 pl. When Alien A and Human both have almost a double their previous pl for forms. I am genuinely confused why people keep citing 'double their previous form' in such a manner, as already noted this is even more reason why they are deserving of it not less, it means that for all that time they have been subjected to a far outpaced multiplier and only brought back to par much later than everyone else :XI hope this perhaps addresses some of peoples thoughts (not just Emer's, but other members too) and perhaps broadens a few considerations which may not have been taken into account. I'm sorry I can't elaborate further but I am already far overtime this lunch, and I don't want to keep you guys waiting any more days just to get a reply to some of the points raised here.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 11:02:23 GMT
I'd like to argue your two point within a few points of my own. 1) 20,000 PL is not all that hard of requirement to get if you stay active with your character. The fact of this shown with point two. 2) Besides Humans Bio-Androids have the ability to gain a first transformation at 20,000 and as Koramund has shown he's about a third of the way there already and he's not been RPing long. He's gotten a third of the way to his 20,000 PL marker with some help from training items, but not as much as you'd realize. He's only been officially RPing 19 days and had so far 7 threads graded to his name. It may make that first point you presented moot depending on the kind of writer our RP is presented with since Koramund's still got a number of threads that still need grading and he's transferring over to an alien based character anyway so I find that kind of a waste sort of, but if he wants to be an alien that's his choice. 3) PL enhancing items are something everyone seems to have right now. They've all figured out fairly well how the payment system with Zeni works. Therefore, some people on here can have anywhere between 5-10K Zeni already unused and unspent for items when they need them. A good number of these characters I think are actually not human though. 4) The fact that humans get a Zeni Boost at +.1 I don't think think is necessarily unfair, but it really increases their chances to have the above and the items to train far faster then Koramund is training now. 5) Ultimately, more zeni means more training options, but that's only if the person wants to delve into that. It's not the real problem with humans I think what's the problem is two benefits and no flaws but I'll get into that again in a moment. 6) To do take full effect of a human's ability to learn techniques you first have to think up one, then have you approve it Bao, and then write generally between 500-1000 plus words to actually learn a technique. This can take at least a week to approve if not more and some people like Athren, who has a nine or so technique slots open, will be unable to learn that many attacks before the given saga in six days. 7) Taking the above point, and putting it in the defense of humans "maybe" being balanced, and then using it to take into account for how long it might take for someone with 87 techniques to learn them here's what I've considered. For 87 techniques: 500 WC x 87 (Separate threads for each Attack Learned) = 43,500 words + PL since training techniques gives this anyway. 8) That's half the length of a good book so please don't try to kill yourself everyone trying to reach that many techniques at once. It won't happen. That's what I've come to open my eyes to after discussing Athren trying to learn techniques for himself after last night. As it stands I don't think this technique training stuff is a flaw or benefit for any character on the site because approval to learn one technique at all takes some time and then you have to actually write out the thread. What this point leaves open as a potential problem is the ability to exploit faster technique learning and having far quicker and greater access to abilities that would give an edge. Trying to learn a technique is currently semi-beneficial to humans and other characters at the moment since approval of said things is done only through you Bao currently, but if we had more then one staff member working on that then it would be a problem. The reason being that someone could learn their Bakuhamaretsu technique at N1 then another form of it on top of that much faster as a human then any other character without a draw back to their PL since they gain it anyway for attempting to train an attack and training anyway if they choose to. The fact that they start with 500 Zeni and then gain a boost isn't something that necessarily has to be something that helps them since in the long run humans can take a full PL route right off the bat or Zeni route before going into PL. Sure, it'll take them a few more threads but they may ultimately yield benefit either way which is the problem without a draw back to the overall structure that makes a human a human. Zoanthropes, the underused side of the human race, also I suspect fall into this same judgement considering they are like carbonic copies of them for the most part except they're sporting animal traits more akin to Saiyans themselves. Anyway, the overall character structures of other characters' species at least has some flaws to it in our current setting of the RP. Not including aliens that is! I'd open that can of worms and point out every single flaw in our build of the RP but it seems Milac did that before me so I'll use him as a reference since I'm short on time and I've said enough. Thank you Milac!
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Dec 4, 2014 22:42:10 GMT
Your welcome...
I would like to point out that extra techniques are essentially useless in the current system due to power capping at the master level. You can create a damage optimal character with the starting three techniques... after that you can pick up some fluffy supports. Just because you have 44 more techniques at the end does not make you able to do any sort of additional output. It becomes the difference between a purple beam that does 100% charges and a blue one that does the same thing.
With variants maybe you could add some more fluff in but variants are honestly kind of gimp in and of themselves and a master offensive skill is the optimal thing to do.
In addition... the end game numbers being thrown up are all within a the 25% or whatever, making them equal in battle and debasing this debate into a spilt milk argument.
Challenge Gather offensive moves from applications on the site that you find. Each of these moves must be mechanically unique to the other moves you present here and have an approval nod from Swg.
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Post by Wyntre Cold on Dec 5, 2014 23:40:13 GMT
Can we put up a vote for this, or am I just stupid and haven't seen it?
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Post by President Bao on Dec 6, 2014 14:09:39 GMT
Discussion thread comes first, polls only come after discussion has finished, otherwise we end up with the issue we've seen a couple of times previously where the polls did not properly represent the options/people didn't really know what the polls was about before voting. (Side note - hi Mil ) ----- To try and address half of Koj's post here before I run out of time: You're thinking of humans not aliens It's a little extreme to dismiss such a key flaw entirely. Just raising this as a friendly observation; I've noticed a lot of your opinion on a few matters like this seems to be based heavily on a singular moment, rather than an overall span of time. Being the weakest race for all except the literal end of the game is a very major flaw, but it sounds as though the mental model you've built completely glossed over that demerit and jumped straight to this situation where you are sitting on 500,000pl and thus enjoying what was the reward for your effort. Basically, demerits only exist to balance things back to equalibrium... ... Hey, is anyone here willing to help demonstrate something visually? All it will require is some math and another google spreadsheet (boring and tedious I know, I would do it right now but given current events I think you'd agree my limited time is unfortunately better used addressing more pressing tasks :X). Basically, what we need is rows ascending in 50,000pl indices, and columns for each race's mutiplier at these corresponding values. From this you can then generate a line graph, demonstrating exactly how each race compares to each other I had this done myself(local file), but was lost during my transfer to this new computer. I do genuinely want to hear and understand your point of view, and since this seems to be a major factor in it I'd definitely like clarification. Can you outline how these extra techniques provide a human with a problematic advantage? I certainly acknowledge that for most people here that's probably more techniques than they'd ever know what to do with, but I genuinely do not see the problem here so wish to gain some insight into your concerns. Indeed, saiyan zenkai rewards people who play with a saiyans mindset(arrogant, bold, fight-obsessed and always looking to test their grit against a worthy opponent), though you are incorrect that the boost gets smaller. As for Arcosians - only if they use their superior transformations to assure victory, they are much stronger than other races so are designed with a demerit that .. well again, plays to an arcosian mindset, holding back their true power, boasting haughtily of their ability to overwhelm their opponent at any time they wish, and only unleashing their full power when pushed into doing it. Are we talking racial traits or transformations now? (and I'm a little surprised given your pl progression experience, and that of fellow members here, that you'd consider 75,000 base pl so paltry, that is a very sizeable gap) Remember that Namekians have more than just regeneration , though if you're comparing namekian transformations to humans than then keep in mind namekians start with a x1 advantage, at 50,000 get a x5 advantage, at 150,000 get a x2 advantage, at 300,000 they have a x9 advantage, and at 425,000 get a x14 advantage (again, because humans are skewed to the very end of the game. This is where the aforementioned line graph would be handy ) I'm afraid you've confused me now... is this as opposed to having no requirement on their final transformation? (So just having their final transformation available upon creation?) and yes, Alien B have a revival trait like arcosians, since in the same way Alien A is distributed in a similar manner to humans but less extreme in their skew, Alien B is distributed in a similar manner to arcosians but less extreme in their skew. and finally - Yes, Bio-android is one of the 5 races which have a saga defeat requirement associated with reaching their highest possible trans - I'm not entirely sure why this particular element is being emphases but I guess it all factors in so I'm more than happy to humour this element of the discussion . Of the five, 1 of them has little choice(bio-android, more because it's a tie in to canon and due to the wide array of advantages they were given earlier), two have another easier option making the requirement a trade off for the extra reward associated with it(hybrids and alien A) and two have the choice come much earlier but will likely want it to keep progressing to new transformations (arcosians and alien B). - the 6 other races have no saga requirement associated with any available forms. Anyway, gotta run. (I'm keen to hear any replies to any of the responses I've posted so far though )
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 18:10:14 GMT
Well Bao, It's time to point it out, you keep saying they're the weakest but in fact they are not. Alien A is still technically weaker than the humans all the way. We start the lowest, and stay with them through most of the game. In fact almost all of our transes as an Alien A are weaker than a humans throughout the thing. If you truly wish to see the humans weaker than you might need to fix this as a nice little example, I'll post you every Math that you could actually hope for. And the thing about the 10k was referring to the early trans. Now, Let's start with our pretty little math thing starting with first transes.
Alien A Starting Power: 400-800(Type A) OR 500-1200(Type B) OR 1500-2000(Type C)
Human Starting pl: 400-800
oh my what we have here is even starting for alien A and humans alike.
Firs transes for both
x2 from the alian A and a 3x from the Human.
800x2=1,600 800x3=2,400
Alien A=66% of Humans pl starting off= Low tier, and not likely to win. Woot? But hey sure let's be honest it says it needs to be controled right? But I know for a fact anyone and everyone will access this thing at times of desperation, so it's a dominate field on this. Meaning having control or not, you will use it most of the time in fights. If not all the time if the other transforms.
Second tier transformations
Alien A: 70,000x6= 420,000 pl Humans: 70,000x6= 420,000 pl.
They're even in this form. Difference? Not much depending on how the Alien makes their racial and such compared to humans, the humans retain the advantage with Zeni boosts, and on top of it technique boost.
Third tier forms, Alien A: 150,000x15= 2,250,000 Pl 10k difference in obtaining this form. Takes longer to reach, as Weights an other items as currently being voted on will be harder to obtain at this high of a pl, as grading will be stricter, and the person will need to continue to do well in roleplaying without boost, besides for gravity which is 2x a week. Humans: 140,000x16= 2,240,000 if you take this and make it a 150,000x16 to be with alien's A unlocked form that's 150,000x16= 2,400,000 Power level. Not much of a difference I will say, but with the injury system in place, The mere difference of a multiplier and a couple thousand pl is gonna play a nice role in this.
Fourth tier transformations/ Late game transformations Alien A: 250,000 pl x25= 6,250,000 pl Humans: 250,000 pl x23= 5,750,000 pl
Late game trans, Last one before the Final Transes, Aliens pull ahead, but by how much? Less than 8% difference in power level, Oh my.
Now for final Transes Alien A: Take a saga defeat or death for a 48x or never achieve this form and stick with a lower 42x 400,000 x42=16,800,000 pl 460,000 x48= 22,080,000 pl Humans: Oh here you did some hard work achieving 40k more than an Alien A in league with their transformation. 500,000x 50= 25,000,000 pl.
Aliens= 88% of the humans Max power, if they even take a saga defeat to obtain the 48x and then have to work towards a 460,000 goal. Injury system implemented= Losing fight for the Alien A.
If they choose not to go for the saga defeat they're within 67% of the humans. Meaning a losing battle yet again.
So Bao, Please stop saying they're the weakest, and in fact it says within the humans template they're suppose to be the weakest after all.
No where does it state they'd end up the strongest? Does anyone see that in here? I honestly don't. Now lets look at Alien A, and see for words what it says.
You keep saying that Humans start off the weakest, but in fact everyone dismisses the fact that even though Aliens' have three types of builds yes. But I'm tired of hearing that humans are the weakest, when they do have a Zeni boost, learn techniques quicker, and ultimately, are stronger than an Alien A, throughout the entire game. Care to argue my point anyone? I'll listen but the math does not lie in this situation as you asked for the math.
*Edit* Noticed I sounded snappy, but getting tired of everyone saying humans are the weakest. And would become the strongest. No where in the original App's was that stated. And such.
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Kojima
Archived
PL: 21,516; Hidden Potential (x4) 86,064; Items:Scouter, One-Use Space Pod; Zeni: 656
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Post by Kojima on Dec 7, 2014 6:23:39 GMT
The simple answer is No. The long answer is:
Demons final transformation is a x39 modifier (almost 1/5th of what a humans final one is) and has a massive requirement of a saga defeat. Alien A has a higher modifier with the same requirement.
As I said before, I know you want them to be the "Underdogs" and all that, but regardless I still dont' see a x50 modifier as being completely fair for EVERY other race. And NO bao, I WASN'T thinking of humans I was thinking of Alien A's which YOU yourself have told me are supposed to be the STRONGEST race at end game. Alien B HAVE to have the cyber thing done or they don't get a very high modifier at all according to your chart Bao unless you plan on updating it further or making more changes.
and here Bao, Not to be a dick but let me increase the size of why I'm emphasizing the saga defeat shit so heavily.\
Alien A, Demons, Bio-Androids, and Hybrids all require Saga Defeats for their Final Transformation and they are ALL WEAKER than Humans Trans.
I find it extremely unfair that they all get a weaker transformation than Humans but require a higher requirement. The BIGGEST reason for this is as follows: There is nothing for plot being made currently. Yes we have Emer's plot which apparently is supposed to be soon but NOBODY is near the requirement so unless you're letting that count, It won't and I don't see how that would or why it would but w/e not arguing that or even discussing it. My point is while yes Humans are "Weaker" than other races there is little to no actual conflict going on so that "flaw" is pretty much nullified. As for the techniques thing? Variety. Yea sure you can say "Oh well you can get 1 MP3 and be done" but at the same time that ONE MP3 won't cover all possible scenario's and may not actually be effective all the time. It's just like Kiba's MP3, It's strictly melee based. If she can't get in and hit your face it's useless, all of her techniques are. So while one big blast might seem like it covers everything, it has a flaw in that it's probably a lot slower than a smaller focused blast so it could probably be more easily dodged whereas a smaller blast might seem weaker but it's also smaller making it harder to hit but much faster 'cause, y'know, smaller. So variety again. And just because it doesn't SEEM like anyone would, you'd be surprised. I've seen some characters on sites with a massive list of techniques that range in size from small or large to medium to all the sizes in between. Also: SUPPORT ABILITIES, and SPECIAL ABILITIES. Those take tech slots too yo. Special's even take 2.
Oh, And before anyone tries to call that "BIASED!" bull shit on me, this hurts me a lot and doesn't actually help me at all.
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Pipa
Archived
PL: 19,119; Great Namek(Demonic Will) (x3); Makyo Star(x8); Items: One-Use Space Pod, Onyx Scimitar, 1 5,000PL Guard, Upgraded Ship (6 occupant ship), x80 Gravity Chamber, Heavy Weights; Zeni: 0
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Post by Pipa on Dec 7, 2014 6:46:39 GMT
I find it extremely unfair that they all get a weaker transformation than Humans but require a higher requirement. The BIGGEST reason for this is as follows: There is nothing for plot being made currently. Yes we have Emer's plot which apparently is supposed to be soon but NOBODY is near the requirement so unless you're letting that count, It won't and I don't see how that would or why it would but w/e not arguing that or even discussing it. My point is while yes Humans are "Weaker" than other races there is little to no actual conflict going on so that "flaw" is pretty much nullified. As for the techniques thing? Variety. Yea sure you can say "Oh well you can get 1 MP3 and be done" but at the same time that ONE MP3 won't cover all possible scenario's and may not actually be effective all the time. It's just like Kiba's MP3, It's strictly melee based. If she can't get in and hit your face it's useless, all of her techniques are. So while one big blast might seem like it covers everything, it has a flaw in that it's probably a lot slower than a smaller focused blast so it could probably be more easily dodged whereas a smaller blast might seem weaker but it's also smaller making it harder to hit but much faster 'cause, y'know, smaller. So variety again. And just because it doesn't SEEM like anyone would, you'd be surprised. I've seen some characters on sites with a massive list of techniques that range in size from small or large to medium to all the sizes in between. Also: SUPPORT ABILITIES, and SPECIAL ABILITIES. Those take tech slots too yo. Special's even take 2.
Oh, And before anyone tries to call that "BIASED!" bull shit on me, this hurts me a lot and doesn't actually help me at all.
Aye, adding some variety is nice but I would doubt that the extra 42 at end game is going to be an actual boon. Variety is fun, and that is great-! I don't really think that it is one of the better skills though to be honest, most of the others are getting an ability that a regular tech can not reproduce. The real boon of the racial here is getting those supports filled up faster, the rest is gravy really. Keep in mind that a non-human will have to use up 83 technique slots, that is a helluva lot of techniques. I would like to see some sort of requirement for human's final though. I would love to see a funny throwback to Krillen and the other poor humans- where they have to have died a lot in order to get it.
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Post by President Bao on Dec 7, 2014 7:05:38 GMT
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Kojima
Archived
PL: 21,516; Hidden Potential (x4) 86,064; Items:Scouter, One-Use Space Pod; Zeni: 656
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Post by Kojima on Dec 7, 2014 12:20:30 GMT
Gotta be honest Bao, That graph makes absolutely no sense without some sort of legend. WTF does the -10 mean? What's the difference between the clear Alien A and Alien A Saga? Why is one Alien A more powerful than the other? Why are Alien A's dropping so drastically so suddenly then immediately rising back up with no explanation? I know it was rushed and all that but without a legend or something to go with this explaining this kinda shit that graph doesn't really tell us anything. You're also using Kagami's alongside Alien A's, Where's the Alien B? Hybrids? Bio Androids? Demons? Where are all them?
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Post by President Bao on Dec 9, 2014 4:52:31 GMT
To try and answer very quickly: The graphs plot Alien A transformations compared to Human(Y axis), at 10,000pl indices(X axis). Human is being used as the neutral line(all 0), you can therefore see how alien A performs in comparison. 'Saga' is if they chose to go for the saga defeat trans instead of the normal trans. Kagami B are Emer's kagami variant. Feel free to create your own sheet and do the data entry required to make a full race comparison, I do not have enough time to do so currently/since I no longer have access to the original. (hint: Saiyan is the default race, in the same way I used humans as neutrality above, you should use saiyans as as neutrality for a complete race comparison... also, all races on one chart becomes unreadable, should prob split into multi graphs)
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