Vryka
Archived
PL: 3827; Demonic Will (x3): 11,481; Makyo (x8): 30,616; Items: 1 use spacepod; Zeni: 2773
Tag: @vryka
Posts: 23
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Post by Vryka on Nov 3, 2014 7:07:41 GMT
I felt I'd do something. Arcosian's graph! Here, we will use 1,000 PL as an example. PL first, then gain (zero being usual). Ignore the following, thank you Milac. Negative
Neutral Positive Arcosian | No Weights | Light Weights | Medium Weights | Heavy Weights | Suppressed | 1,000, 0% | 750, +25% | 500, +50% | 250, +75% | Brute | 5,000, 0% | 4,000, +25% | 2,500, +50% | 3,750, +75% | Monster | 8,000, -25% | 6,000, 0% | 4,000, 25% | 6,000, +50% | True | 10,000, -50% | 8,000, -25% | 5,000, 0% | 7,500, +25% |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 7:17:16 GMT
Eh I think that the math may be a bit off here. Gains aren't measured by what transformation you are using. a 1,000 pl gain is a 1,000 pl gain. It isn't multiplied by your transformation modifier. The weights math for supression and brute is also incorrect. 1,000 x.25= 250. You then add the 250 to 1000 to get 1250. For medium it would be 1,500. For heavy it would be 1,750. 1,000 pl in a thread where you used monster form would be 750. With light weights it would be 1,000. With medium it would be 1,250. With Heavy it would be 1,500. 1,000 pl in a thread where you used true form would be 500. Light weights= 750 medium weights= 1,000. Heavy=1,250 100 pl grade | No Weights | Light Weights | Medium Weights | Heavy Weights | Suppressed (Regular pl gain) | 100 | 125 | 150 | 175 | Brute (Regular pl gain) | 100 | 125 | 150 | 175 | Monster (3/4 pl gain) | 75 | 100 | 125 | 150 | True (1/2 pl gain) | 50 | 75 | 100 | 125 |
Edited this chart to 100 pl gain so that it can show how percentages work 1pl=1% in this case. Also you shouldn't assume you are going to get a 100% grade on your threads, you probably won't that often. If the mod were to give you an 80% and you were in true form without weights he would subtract another 50% from your grade. So if you were to get a natural 80% grade you would get downed to 30%. The opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the Staff. This is simply based off of information that is available. It could be possible that you get your 80% grade first (lets say 80 pl out of 100) and then that gets halved down to 40 rather than 30. Even if the math is slightly off I believe the intent is so that you are using your true form only when you need it.
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Vryka
Archived
PL: 3827; Demonic Will (x3): 11,481; Makyo (x8): 30,616; Items: 1 use spacepod; Zeni: 2773
Tag: @vryka
Posts: 23
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Post by Vryka on Nov 3, 2014 7:26:38 GMT
Thanks, I'll use this!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 14:34:07 GMT
To correct you both, I do believe Brute form actually acquires a 25% boost to grades
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 14:48:33 GMT
If it does it is in need of a serious rewording, it specifically says mitigate the loss in the ability and the numbers don't add up to give a boost.... True form: 100%-50%= 50% Monster: 50%+25%= 75% Brute:50%+50%= 100%
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 16:21:39 GMT
What you misunderstand is while in normal form you has 100% gain while in brute you have a 125% gain monster is 150% gain an true is 50% gain
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Kadbra
Rising Soul
PL: 23,827; Demonic Will (x3): 71,481 Makyo (x8) 190,616; Items: Heavy Weights (3,144.5 | 9,433.5 | 25,156); One-Use Space Pod; Black Great Sword; Senzu Bean 1; Zeni: 404
Tag: @kadbra
Posts: 106
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Post by Kadbra on Nov 3, 2014 17:47:22 GMT
To me, that makes absolutely no sense, especially with the written fluff regarding it. Why would you get increased PL gain, if your forms actively strain you and make it harder to grow stronger? The whole deal of Arcosians, to me as a newbie at least, is that their impressive forms come at a cost to you.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 17:50:22 GMT
That seems really over powered. I will show why here.
Brute form+ heavy weights Power Level gain boost= 225% on grades Power Level of brute form after math with heavy weights= PL x 1.5
So essentialy that means an Acrosian who is smart enough to utilize this would gain power level over two times as fast as the average Joe, and that is before gravity chamber training- the kicker is that even with the weights on they will still be more powerful than their base PL.
Math
Power level boost If brute form yields 150% on grades (assumming you got a 100% on your thread), and you add heavy weights at a +75%. you get a 225% boost to power level.
Power Level Brute form power level is x5 of base. 5 times .25 from heavy weights is 1.25. So an acrosian in brute form with heavy weights with a base pl of 10,000 would be 12,500.
President Bao is what Emer is saying the intent of the acrosian mechanics? If it is I am going to show more math in a suggestion thread and try to vote it down, I have nothing against people playing the race but that is crazy over powered.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 19:04:15 GMT
Actually it's not crazy over powered arcrosians are going to fall behind in due time unless they become mechanic, meaning they lose brute and monster form. If you look arcrosians without being me nicked actually have a trans called true which is a 12x multiplier and then the only other one they get before becoming like mechs frezia is Fortaleza which is a 16x transformation. The reason they get the boost in this form, is cause they get a measly 16x trans to compete with other peoples x42 or higher trans late game, and even match the arcrosians royal form before that at 250,000 most races get a 25x boost which will leave an arcrosians in the dust even if they had lets say... Oh 400,000 pl and say a alien like myself at 300,000 pl it's a 100,000 power level difference, pretty huge right? Sadly not for long say the arcrosians goes to royal form that a 400,000x16=6,400,000 he'll for sake of showing ya make royal a 18x it'll be 7,200,000 now say if an alien sub as myself uses our 25x form thats. 300,000x25= 7,500,000 pl. that's a 100,000 difference in power level shot down with an arcrosians last form being zip. That turns from the arcrosians having a 100,000 pl to a -300,000 pl difference from the alien.
Edit: Also I believe I had Brute and Monster backwards, Brute provides the 50% boost as Monster provides the 25% boost, but the description above remains the same. As they become mechified they lose all bonuses, now you can see why it's like this. As for a demonstration of what these do I'll use a 1,500 pl grade upon reward as a chart here.
1,500x.5=750 more pl onto their grade thus. 1,500+750=2,250 pl upon reward. It's simply an addition, now as you say Heavy weights alright then. 1,500x.5=750 1,500x.75= 1,125 more pl so in the end it's 1,500+750+1,125= 3,375 gain only, Now if you want to see unfair Imagine this. I gain around 6k to 9k a topic without modifiers at times. So if I took in that and all the modifiers I got now. Say I earned a base grade of 9,000 as my topic with Nai netted 15,000 with just me and her. That was with Medium weights. Now as I go with what I have as far as saving up Zeni and getting all that I needed.
9,000x.75= 6,750 pl Heavy weights 9,000x.5=4,500 due to the house 9,000x.5 due to gravity chamber= 4,500 Now when we add all that up.It'll total out at 24,750 Pl on reward for me, Now say that was during a fight with an arcrosian alright? Of course they'd be able to fight me in normal form, and eventually if they had been low enough they'd be forced to fight me in their monster form, that's 25% alright Say they got uh idk a small reward of say 8,000
8,000x.75= 6,000 For heavy weights 8,000x.25= 2,000 pl for monster and then a 8,000x.50=4,000 for gravity chamber
This would make it a 20,000 gain, now say they happen to be in their brute form and fight like that, add on another 2,000 pl they'd receive 22,000 pl. Just cause they have that boost doesn't make them over powered. Now by all means if they save up enough money like I did and wish to fight someone in their house they deserve it. But, as it is I'm showing you that their gains aren't really oped. Anyone can actually acquire this much if they take the time to do so. Changelings just get it a bit early.
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Vryka
Archived
PL: 3827; Demonic Will (x3): 11,481; Makyo (x8): 30,616; Items: 1 use spacepod; Zeni: 2773
Tag: @vryka
Posts: 23
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Post by Vryka on Nov 3, 2014 20:20:54 GMT
... ... ... What have I started?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 20:23:05 GMT
Don't worry it is a civil discussion. No one is mad as far as I know.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 20:26:33 GMT
Nothing yet Vryka, just explaining things , As I hear you have a future Arcrosian in tow, I figured it'd be nice to get in here and explain
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 20:43:09 GMT
You guys are looking into this in the wrong way I feel. Let me give you some updated information I have been adding to the new site's species implementation based on what's been revealed already. Current Limit - 1 of 2ArcosiansPlanet ArcoseStarting Power-level: 2000-2500 Appearance: The arcosian's true form is the most humanoid, a sleek supple design. The form you may see most often is the 'Suppressed' form, however, which is the state in which they are the most diminutive, often with horns and bone-like armour. Background: Often considered to be the strongest natural-born race in the galaxy, arcosians are oft-feared as pirates and tyrants. Distrustful of anyone and everything but their own blood (and even then, family is often expendable), they will manipulate and bully until they are in positions of power. One powerful family of particular notoriety long ago earned them the name of Frost Demons among some circles of the galaxy. Name Pun Theme(s): Arcosian's have names associated with temperatures, often low temperatures. Canon Examples: Frieza, Kold, Coola, Chilled, Kuriza(Nekomajin) Unique Characteristics: Arcosians start with the most forms (lending to them the slang name of Changeling), and are the most powerful. They can survive horrific injuries, though not continue to fight at that time, and can survive in the vacuum of space. There are other characteristics for Arcosians below which apply for their transformations. One of note is the potential to become a Cyber Arcosian after a saga defeat and the proper power level requirement of 200,000 power is met. Their survival is a greatly noted feature of this race and as a result when placed on the defensive they may activate their Durability and gain +(x1) to their current transformations' modifiers. Transformations:'Suppressed' Form - the state in which most arcosians live in, due to not being able to always control their full power. Usually short in stature, don't be fooled - you still do not want to mess with one of these. In their suppressed form Arcosians gain 50% less from threads being graded for power levels. 'Brute' Form (x5) - an increase in size from the first form, an elongation of horns which can be used as an impaling device and a much stronger tail has lead to many nightmares for those who have to face an arcosian in this form. A 5x increase in power. In this form Arcosians may gain 50% more when they transform and fight in this form. To gain this form an Arcosian must have 5000 power 'Monster' Form (x8) - a further increase in size, the elongation of the back of the head and a total of a 8x increase from their 'Suppressed' power. This is a creepy, creepy sight to behold, and often an Arcosian tries to avoid having to ascend to such a form. This form is earned after 20,000 power and grants 25% more power when a thread is graded for power levels; although, this is after a character uses this form in a thread. 'True' Form (x10) - the size is reduced to just slightly taller than the initial 'Suppressed' form, but despite it's relative tininess it is the strongest of all naturally-available forms, the one an arcosian is born in before he learns to suppress his power. It yields a massive 10x increase from the 'Suppressed' power, and is the arcosian's true strength. An Arcosian may start with this form. TIER 2'Full Powered/Mastered' Form(x15/x12) - the Arcosian may take on one of two forms of power with this next transformation. The first form is a temporary form that only increases the size of their muscles to that of a body's builder's but leaves the Arcosian more or less the same. In doing so though, their power raises to x15 for a brief period of time. Their Mastered is generally the same, but can be considered less bulky looking in appearance and as a result leaves them with only a x12 their power at their disposal. This power, however, unlike the first one is a permanent increase so Arcosians must choose wisely between one or the other . Fortunately, if they chose to use either powerful form, other then the power requirement, they only need to have the technique Ki Suppression. They also lose prior abilities from their other forms such as the power level gains/deductions once attained. OR'Mechanization' Form (x5α,x9β,x15 Refined Construct) - This form of an Arcosian, as previously stated, is only attained if the character is defeated in a saga and wants to come back in a mechanical form. To do so, they need 200,000 power to survive the operation, but end up returning with a great deal of permanent power they may use at any point and time. The issue with returning this way is that though they may avoid death they could have a great deal of their body replaced by cyborg parts. Each of the three forms listed for the mechanization form are accessible from the point at which the character rebuilds themselves. There are, however, even higher forms of power though that one can unlock so getting this form may be a great help to Arcosians who wish to get stronger. A number of the character traits that deduct or increase their power levels after grading a thread for power level are lost, but they can still use Durability. ? -- As I see it, most characters start off on the site expecting 100% gains for the grades they get for power. They usually do if they write extremely well. In the case of Arcosians though it's made a little harder to get these kinds of gains since they are meant to be extremely evil, powerful saga villain options from the get go. As a result, it's the base form i.e. suppressed form not the true form that gets a -.5 on all grades for this species involving power. In true form you get the full, 100% grade that normal characters would get for their work with no bonuses added to the writing if you're not using an item that would result in bonuses or not in a special thread of any kind. The reason for this is because it's shown that Arcosians are arrogant canon wise and more likely to transform to crush foes then let them live I feel. The Brute and Monster forms are meant to act as special bonuses to erase the effects of the decreased gains that the base form of an Arcosian gives, which ultimately are erased once the Mastered Tier or Cyber Arcosian per-requisites are met. So if you got a 100% grade on your Arcosian for a thread where they only used their base form they would only receive half of that in a thread by themselves. (1000PL=500PL) For Brute form though: (1000PL=750PL) And for Monster Form: (1000PL=1000PL) True Arcosian would be: (1000PL=1000PL)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 21:00:52 GMT
I know that they suck later, but they are already extremely strong without adding in a PL boost. I feel that the x10 transform freebie already makes them the kings of low level play.
Let's create a theoretic acrosian that has been here the same amount of time as Emer, and has all the exact same grades and starter pl as Emer (that way we can algebraically cancel out weighting and posting effort.)
Emer has a current power level of about 40,000 Frostythedeathballman would have 60,000 because all of his efforts that were the same as yours were being multiplied by .5 the entire time (because he is a meta gaming ass and is using a form that gives him a .5 bonus in every thread- this is just another simplification to show the most extreme case.)
It has been 43 days since Emer's BP was approved. It has taken him that many days to acquire the ~40,000 pl. Emer would have to play at the same rate of speed and quality for ~21 days to catch up to his Acrosian dopple ganger if we assume that the arcosian stops posting. This gets on an even higher extreme as you go on up til mecha form and the trait is lost.
Discounting weights and gravity by assuming everyone is using them in this theoretic equation, an acrosians 200,000 base pl is reached at anyone elses 133,333 effort (200,000/1.5=133,333.)
Transformations obviously change the way base pl makes up your actual power, but no other ability other than weights that everyone has access to can cause that gain.
It is also overpowered the way you state because 6,000/1.5= 4,000. Meaning that word for word they earn techniques just as fast as a human does because of the multiplied base.
Sorry I didn't really respond to all the math you presented Emer, I will get back to it in a later post!
Oni- The racial stats you posted up doesn't include difficult to control found on the spreadsheet and patch notes.
Naturally arcosians gain less(-0.5) from grades because their full power is difficult to control.
It doesn't even refer to a form actually. It is an across the board decrease, and only brute and monster gain the pl back. Brute is relativly easy to obtain, so you would still be able to get a 100% grade like everyone else so long as you aren't running around in true form.
With what you said there would be no logical reason to ever not use true form.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 23:02:19 GMT
I implied the Difficult to Control stuff in transformation section itself. If you read the Suppressed form transformation you will note this sentence: "In their suppressed form Arcosians gain 50% less from threads being graded for power levels." The suppressed form you must understand is their base form. The base power level they have is the power level Arcosians have in their suppressed form.
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