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Post by Pieter Wolfbane on Sept 4, 2014 19:34:32 GMT
A weapon shop in the Items section. Reason I'm thinking about this is that more people are coming in with swords and, this is a fundamental thought in combat: A armed man is more dangerous than an unarmed man. The unarmed man requires a vast amount of training in order to fight on even grounds with his armed opponent. Being that Dragon Ball, while it does go to the point where weapons are obsolete practically, does implement guns, ships, bombs, etc. and so forth, I feel there's a need to put this in. A weapon is an advantage given to a person, with having its own disadvantages in its technique usage. Regardless, it is a mechanic that gets expressed in combat. It gives weaker people the ability to fight with someone stronger than they are.
Now that it's out there in the open, what do you propose, if you agree? What don't you like about this? Maybe you think adding an armor shop's important?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2014 19:39:15 GMT
Well I think that a weapons shop will bring in a rather interesting thing to the site. I mean it will make people not just have to worry about the normal compliment of earth shattering martial arts moves and ki blasts but weapons as well. Not to mention most the demons on site have weapons of some sort do they not so it kind of evens out the playing field for the rest of the people.
Also a final note that weapons have played an important role in Dragon Ball and Z. First with the Power Pole in DB and then the swords of Trunks/Tapion and the Z Sword in the Buu saga.
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Hitake Itori
Rising Soul
PL: 13,972; Oozaru (x10): 139,720; Items: One Use Pod; Heavy Weights- 3493 | 34,930;Zeni: 611
Tag: @hiratakefujitora
Posts: 111
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Post by Hitake Itori on Sept 4, 2014 19:45:17 GMT
I agree with what Ninjin has stated. Swords, staffs and other things have had influence within the genre to some extent. I am down with this idea.
That being said, an armor shop isn't a bad idea either Pieter. With the Saiyan armor and the clothing that the Z fighters wore, it would not surprise me if the designs did not carry over for others to use. Maybe these armors or clothing could give a small resistance against damage or the effects of said damage.
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Post by Lord Tsumuri Takeda on Sept 4, 2014 21:22:59 GMT
True that weapons have been apart of DB/DBZ, but it wasn't a true focus. I'm not against people having weapons, but I am against people having to buy weapons and armor. I feel it isn't needed at all. Most of us demons and half demon's do have swords, but it doesn't necessarily give us an advantage in battle. I can pull rp's from our first life and show you how even the battles are regardless of power level. Also what dbz armor do you know of actually reduced damage? Besides allowing more flexibility saiyan armor did nothing.
In the end the it comes down to trust if you really look at. Do you trust your partner(rp's with other ppl I view as a partnership) to be fair? It is ultimately up to the weapon wielder and the unarmed to be fair and it is also up to them to be cohesive. We as a community should be able to handle this without implementing new things such as a weapon and armor shop. We should be able to trust each other to sacrifice the bad assery that we want our characters to have in order to create an interesting battle/story with one another. You are a team when you rp with someone. You come together to make your rp decent/good/great.
Tsumuri has a sword and if I went against someone unarmed I would have to trust them to not treat my weapon as if it was nothing. They in turn would have to trust me not to treat them as nobodies in the face of my weapon.
Trust and cohesiveness is all we need in order to keep weapon wielders and unarmed fighters on a level playing field.
My 2cents......
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2014 21:27:21 GMT
I can see what your saying Tsumuri. Though I think being able to use weapons for training may not be a bad way to go and having to purchase said weapon in order to train with it is kind of where I am going with the weapon shop. AS for armor shop I just shrug at it as I am going to only have Nin in her Gi.
Though I want to have something like the Z sword implemented at some point. I mean would it not be fun to go on a quest for a mythical weapon or teacher of said style and suddenly finding yourself being stronger through it all but I am running on.
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Hitake Itori
Rising Soul
PL: 13,972; Oozaru (x10): 139,720; Items: One Use Pod; Heavy Weights- 3493 | 34,930;Zeni: 611
Tag: @hiratakefujitora
Posts: 111
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Post by Hitake Itori on Sept 4, 2014 21:48:55 GMT
The armor shop was a simple suggestion that Pieter threw up that I elaborated on. At the same time except for the Z sword(Which was supposedly near impossible to wield), the same can be said for any weapons. What normal weapon actually gives you a power boost? The suggestion for the armor was just to give people a reason to want to buy some if it were added as a customization idea.
So here's another suggestion. Why not instead of letting weapons give you a power boost, allow them to have some small sort of special ability. Like the Nyoi Bo that can extend. You could even give them set powers. Like a sword or gun simply states you're allowed to make techniques specific to the weapon that utilize the weapon as medium for use. Like a power slash or charged shot.
This suggestion is given only if the weapon with a small power boost idea falls through, which I am in still in favor for.
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Post by Lord Tsumuri Takeda on Sept 4, 2014 22:01:04 GMT
The reason I stand against this so strongly is because I firmly believe it's unnecessary. We have always been allowed to start with a weapon, and we have always been allowed to stumble on to a weapon in an rp in the GOLDEN ERA of WOD. It was never something seen as OP or even weak. It was always meh. However we were able to create techniques that required our weapon which was amazing. I remember working with a character named Ethar and we developed a tech to where his weapon could control the element of water. It was completely non DBZ, but we had evolved so much to that we had things like that.
we evolved to the point to where Shin(My kaioshin)could use magic to do almost anything but I digress. Again against weapons and armor shop but based on the votes it'll happen.
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Hitake Itori
Rising Soul
PL: 13,972; Oozaru (x10): 139,720; Items: One Use Pod; Heavy Weights- 3493 | 34,930;Zeni: 611
Tag: @hiratakefujitora
Posts: 111
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Post by Hitake Itori on Sept 4, 2014 22:16:24 GMT
I completely see your point Tsumuri, but I don't think it would really hurt anyone to have this.
As for magic, it could be something this site looks into. Babidi used magic for everything he did, so I don't think it is out of the question. (Unless its already been brought up which I had missed that if it had been)
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Post by Lord Tsumuri Takeda on Sept 4, 2014 22:42:59 GMT
I don't believe it would hurt, but I fail to see the purpose and usefulness of having such. My fear in the case of weapons is if they have some kind of boost or gain added to them. If it's just a place where you go buy a cutlass and that's all it is then fine. My fear with armor is that it's given a boost like damage reduction. I view this as a seed for WOD to become a number crunching game, and that's just not what our identity is or was.
If this is added as something unique like we can purchase Armor but it is completely cosmetic. This means that it is used to simply give our character a new appearance and such. The same for weapons also. It's just a normal weapon that can be used. If THIS is the plan then I have nothing more to say.
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Hitake Itori
Rising Soul
PL: 13,972; Oozaru (x10): 139,720; Items: One Use Pod; Heavy Weights- 3493 | 34,930;Zeni: 611
Tag: @hiratakefujitora
Posts: 111
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Post by Hitake Itori on Sept 4, 2014 23:51:24 GMT
I get what you're saying. Its opening up the doors for this to be more about who's the strongest if we allow them with a boost.
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Post by Hyoza on Sept 5, 2014 13:55:45 GMT
Right, my opinion is thus:
Do it, but the weapons and armour should be cheap, and should not give large boosts. If the 'Saiyan' armour was useless, most of Frieza's more powerful soldiers (Zarbon, Dodoria, the Ginyus) would not have worn it, but even Frieza wore it! Likewise, we have seen that weapons have a use, and if wielded correctly can be more deadly than hand-to-hand martial arts techniques, especially Trunks' sword use.
HOWEVER, if DBZ has shown us anything, it is that these material objects are but minor advantages, and ultimately a character's overall strength and skill matters more than anything else. I would propose that armour and weapons provide a percentage-based bonus to a user's strength, to represent how their growing power and skill allows them to continue to utilize their weaponry effectively. BUT these percentages should be small - no higher than a 5% boost, unless a character were to receive a powerful magic weapon, which I do not believe should be something that can just be bought.
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karanon
Newcomer
PL: 9,238 Brute(x5): 46,190 Monster(x9)83,142 True(x15)138,570 Items:One-Use SpacePod Zeni:500
Tag: @karanon
Posts: 30
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Post by karanon on Sept 5, 2014 14:08:38 GMT
I think an armor shop would be nice as well. We could do something like a small boost to the power level of attacks used with weapons, and a small decrease to the power level of attacks used on the wearer of a set of armor.
We could make it a tier system thing. Like light armor, medium armor, heavy armor. Weak weapons, fine weapons, master weapons. They could do something like a 5%, 10%, and 15% buff or debuff. Or something like that. They could also be broken if used on an enemy of a certain percent above them maybe. Like how Future Trunks broke the sword of King Cold with his hand, or how Vegeta's armor was pierced with an attack from Frieza. Both had power levels significantly higher than the other user.
And I have to politely disagree with Tsu, we judge how we do against other players using our PL which is a number based stat. There are transformations that boost this by a multiplier which increases that number. And training weights we can buy to enhance how much PL we gain through our threads (which you happen to have a set of yourself). You yourself also have a weapon, which enhances your fighting prowess if not for the mere fact that your character is so skilled at using it.
To say this isn't a number crunching game is at least partially untrue. However, we only use one number, and with the weapons and armors we would still ONLY be using one number; our Power Level. That being the case, I feel that this would be a fine addition. Also, I don't really think that this will effect much. Especially if the items can be broken some way by a significantly higher power level.
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Hitake Itori
Rising Soul
PL: 13,972; Oozaru (x10): 139,720; Items: One Use Pod; Heavy Weights- 3493 | 34,930;Zeni: 611
Tag: @hiratakefujitora
Posts: 111
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Post by Hitake Itori on Sept 5, 2014 19:58:32 GMT
I am in agreement with Hyoza on this one. The boost should be small and remain small so that it does not become a defining factor by itself. Weapons are awesome and can be mastered, but they shouldn't be a game breaker. Just another tool which your character uses to better himself or gain a slight edge.
The same goes with armor. They have to be naturally tough to handle the damage done in a fight. So a small small damage reduction boost would not be so out there.
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Post by Lord Tsumuri Takeda on Sept 5, 2014 21:32:00 GMT
My character owns a sword, but in no way is he some amazing swordsman with superb skill. Yes we use power level, but that doesn't mean that it promises a victory by any means. That's why I say it boils down to trust when two people rp together. Just because someone has 5000pl doesn't mean they are going to beat someone whose at 2500pl. I myself took place in an rp where I was the stronger force, but lost. It wasn't because I chose to lose it was because the story we were building edged that way. I trusted him to give me all he had as he trusted me to be fair and just. Power Level does not promise victory.
( As DBZ fans we will always have an eternal infatuation with power level. Maybe I'm just closed minded but I just can't get on board with this. There will come a time to where instead of creating a story/art we will be to busy calculating damage done to us instead of concentrating on what's most important which is the STORY. Added things such as this is planting the seeds for us to have things like a health bar, ki bar, attack, defense, and who knows what else. I don't feel the weapons and armor system (hyoza) spoke about can be effective without such things mentioned. Again, I have nothing left to say and this will be my last post on the matter. Thank you all for letting me place my 2cents.)
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Post by President Bao on Sept 6, 2014 4:44:05 GMT
Lol, the poll isn't actually presenting any options, a discussion is kind of the automatic result of any suggestion topic, what a poll needs is actual suggested implementations (otherwise it's basically just a roll call) --- Personally I prescribe to the notion that things should definitely not have 'real' costs if they do not grant 'real' benefits*. Currently, people are allowed to have weapons/armour/whatever if they so choose. These are simply RP flavour, and do not provide any OOC benefit which the user would not have if unarmed (except for self-imposed restrictions), meaning they are free. *additionally I think redundancy is redundant so things should avoid overlap, mechanically speaking, where possible. Currently people can also have techniques which utilise or rely upon their weapon. Some may even make their weapon a technique in itself (which therefore follows the mechanics of any offensive technique, including their pl dictating the strength and the ability to invest tech slots to 'master' it further as they develop). The pros of this are that it keeps things straightforward and non-abrasive (weapon or not, it's all in the PL), keeps weapon use as a choice rather than a requirement to 'serious' players, and does not shut weapons behind a pay wall for those who do want them. Cons are that such items are cosmetic (it's the only con I can think of). Despite the two examples cited, I think we can all acknowledge weapons were not and are not an influencing factor in Dragonball, and did not provide their users with a noted advantage (goku's power poll didn't make him any more effective than he was without it, and trunks sword was almost immediately cast aside, it's usage in defeating frieza entirely academic as Kold quickly found out. Even the Z sword was never used in battle and served only as training weight ). Infact, their use was usually specifically invoked to debunk any notion of their assumed usefulness XD I started listing out the examples of this but realised cutting off vegetas tail is literally the only time a weapon proved useful… and even then, only cause yajirobe has no ki control. (which means in his case his sword attack would have counted as a technique, he would have secretly charged it a bunch of turns in the thread while the others had vegeta distracted, then attacked) ---- I actually considered weapons and armour before, as a possible site patch item. When thinking up new content though, it's the mechanical purpose or an end gameplay-goal which needs to be considered, rather than its fictional purpose (since fiction is already covered.) Ultimately, weapons did not have a unique mechanical purpose; their possible implementations already covered by existing mechanics, or adding unnecessary barriers to peoples enjoyment of their own character. If someone wants to RP their character as a swordsman, why should be put blockers in place against that? What is the benefit invoked? If someone doesn't want to be a swordsman and wants to play a more traditional dragonball-style character, then why should they be punished? (which is unfortunately why I decided against something like Hyoza's suggestion.) The closest I got was as an early game(<5000) leg-up, but even then its been rendered mechanically redundant by allies (More specifically, the 500 zeni -> 5000 pl 'guard' was a rejig of my original weapon mechanic into a more useful ally form.)
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